00:00:00 moving the neato unfound your failure one conversation at a time I'm your host Justin Gordon and welcome to startup 2.0 by spark XYZ join us each week as we give you access to some of the top investors and entrepreneurs in the country to help you think through and overcome the top challenges that startup space today's guest is Marklin now a partner at 8t fund mark has been involved in the venture ecosystem here in Los Angeles for a number of years mark welcome to show hey thanks for having me so with a tee at what areas are you

00:00:38 focused on yes so 80s actually backed by Akatsuki which is when the largest mobile gaming developers in Japan so naturally we're looking and you know things in gaming in the future of gaming but it's a little more broad than that we're looking at the digital entertainment and with what the future of entertainment looks like so we're looking at digital live also we're looking into wellness because the company has a culture around you know meditation and things like that so a company like calm or headspace would

00:01:17 definitely fit and like yeah like what stages are you investing in and what is the average check size with eighty I think 300 million I'd say average has been around okay we're not like ownership sensitive that's a natural question that people ask us as much as other big bigger funds are look at the ones it's like a valley we typically participate at like seed we've done some precede so anything I don't the stages or so together these days we do anything like pretty series day okay so your focus is I'm yeah yeah and what is that

00:02:05 investment thesis 480 you mean like specifically in this category yes yeah just trunk an idea of like where you're at with that yeah so we want to invest in companies the North Star is investing in companies that I guess offer consumer delight or make people's lives better and also we want to enable content creators because the company its top is the content creator right and so we look at companies that are playing in in those fields like for example we would we would look at a company that's a good more at the place

00:02:47 ads if that enables you know artists to go create something ok go start the business anything that helps them for example and we definitely look at eSports right because we're gaming company we've done some each esports investments already so if things didn't like game game or skills training you know that's like well a space that we've done an investment and we we've invested in an eSports organization so things like that like I'm looking in that in that industry specifically also you know we've we're looking at at mobile games

00:03:28 like not I would say not a mobile game not just an individual mobile game but maybe we would look at a subscription service for a certain type of mobile or for mobile games or or gaming 15 service right things that we also have invested in as we're pretty big the lead written like in like live live entertainment and live streaming and that's what we see in Asia it's not as popular science which into extra game space but you know things that we've seen happen in Asia with a table alive we'd be interested in

00:04:03 that type of stuff as well yeah cuz we think it emerges like there's three things that that that that type of company would kind of cover for us it would enable artists to sell their products online and on the consumer side it's like a new form of entertainment it's like entertainment shopping right yeah so yeah so it's like things like that is what we like to look for yeah and that definitely gives us a better idea come your process a little bit and what you're looking for also kind of go a little bit deeper what does

00:04:30 that due diligence process look like for you I mean everyone has kind of a different process for that I'm just curious I said what for you that looks like as of now maybe it changes but what does that kind of look like for you yeah I think it changes and they and I think it changes with what we think is you know would be good for downstream investors in the future also I think it also changes that we've shifted our strategy before like we've done a lot of VR in the past and we're not seeing that market take off as much

00:05:03 sleep when shifted away from that yeah but I think in principle we like to work with you know the baseline things that we look forward like we want to work with a founder that we could uniquely help we don't like to be like silent capital per se we want to be helpful and and there needs to be a personal connection between whoever's leading the investment from our side and and the founder or one of the founders so and also we have to pretty be really excited about it like one thing I look for is

00:05:35 like I look for would I go work for this company right if I didn't want to do this anymore so yeah so we look for that and I think you'll hear a lot of things just because the way rounds are being done nowadays like you know we do look for certain metrics like user metrics like if it's a if it's a mobile app we look for a good ratio between di use and MA use if it's a consumer products being sold we look at you know are they what's the repurchase what's the return rate of a customer are they going to be able to

00:06:12 make their series a which is typically $500,000 a year to two million dollars a year in in revenue yep so we look at those type of things like we like quantitatively our process requires that we furnish a memo and like I think a lot of venture capital funds we kinda have to fight to get our deals done like everyone's deals are on the table then we're like as a team we can't make the decision like an isolation we try to make as a team and see like what makes sense from a portfolio I'll like portfolio strategy

00:06:48 wise like are we already in a company that's like in that space or not yeah I'll get a weights like optimized so does that add more complexity to that process and then how long does it end up taking it depends I mean we've done things as fast as a week and we've taken as long as a few months because you want to get to know the founder and the founding team the it's a good question because the the diligence process is like I feel like I you know it's it's a like venture capital itself isn't like a

00:07:30 scalable business like the businesses that were investing in are supposed to be so sometimes it's a matter of how many deals am I looking at the table if I can't get to something which which sucks like because I can't give it my full time in concentration then I have to pass on something I can't give them the right attention they need and also we so it is a function of how kind of busy we are as a fund and and what other deals are getting done and yeah yeah that kind of makes things bad but then

00:07:58 and also I think it actually optimizes for a better match if we do invest and to that process there were some those red flags or reasons why you may not make those investments in the first place yeah I think things that are not like like like Pharma for example we wouldn't invest in or something that's we don't invest in like worked we're a gaming company we wouldn't invest in the gaming developer or game studio because that's a little conflicting yeah with our business but so I think things like

00:08:35 that we can kind of weed out or if it's like we've been looking at direct-to-consumer quite a bit and I think some categories don't work for us because we're a Japanese company that for example cannabis is a big thing but we can never get that across the line yeah the cannabis or looking nicotine or like an alcohol so they come the vices like we can that makes it quite easy perspective this is a good idea I'm sure a lot of investors listen to this or like cannabis probably great idea to invest in it yeah but we we can't do

00:09:05 that we're a publicly traded company in Japan things like that and I I'll take this a layer further yeah we do a lot of reference checking and I think that's our job as a venture capitalist and we want to do reference checking with people who know them the founders and the team and we don't also who don't come through them so it's almost like playing detective if sometimes if we hear too many bad references and it's kind of automatic like no yeah so that that's one as well yeah and then other things that maybe are not as clear that

00:09:46 you wouldn't invest in those are some of the obvious ones but are there some things that just aren't as clear it depends how far along the company is because sometimes it like we we haven't done much I would call it precede kind of angel level type investments and then at that point you don't really have any data right right um what we do revisit every quarter is like our hypothesis on world on where the world's going and if this company is building in a space worth that's like that doesn't align

00:10:17 with our thinking around that there it's it's kind of it took an automatic no yeah yeah for example like we've been looking in in wellness and and that kind of leads into health care sometimes and now we're kind of thinking now do we even look in that space and if we do what spaces are interesting within the sector and if they're not in those spaces that were that we have a I guess a clearer vision or a really convicted a bit like an opinion where we could you know get to conviction about then we

00:10:49 invest in that space and you mentioned every you know quarter comma valuing where the world is going what does that process actually look like yeah we we share a lot of news internally and we also do it externally through like a newsletter that we run and also we try to work we got like to pull data on what's being done like I guess downstream like not just Series A Series B investors but what's going on in M&A so we we talked about that as a fun every quarter we had like an internal like off-site meeting and

00:11:28 that's you know it's that's done for like culture building for us and also to to realign on on strategy in the end these are the things that we talked about so just them somebody inventions that we invest in in India and the US and sometimes Japan so and and we also have been looking at Southeast Asia but we have many investments there but we try to have a global point of view and our process is that wouldn't a there's like a refined process but we make a a deck of our findings and our learnings

00:12:01 of what we learned in this past quarter and how this is reshaping or thinking other world I mean like obviously I think we have to be convicted but we have to be flexible enough for our opinions could change right we could be wrong that like maybe be ours is it gonna take off again yeah which we've seen some data points I mean that may suggest that so and we have and we've actually done some VR investments in the last year so so yeah so we we have to make sure that we're we have a point of view and uh and like a strategy

00:12:33 going forward but that we're flexible given seeing new data points occurred in the market and what are some of those challenges that you see entrepreneurs facing I think especially I've seen a lot of people try to you know I think there's a lot of challenges in algebra it's like fund raising and I think some of the biggest things I I've been seeing not even you know just entrepreneurs like how do we get how do we acquire users for some how do we get just engagement and users on our on our product how do we make sales like those

00:13:11 those things and I've been seeing also like some products not working correctly and that's probably contributing to people not using and turning out and and not getting in the engagement they want to go razor series a so for me that could all be fixed if you know the an investor who has a network to help them do that if we can do it ourselves or help them get in there in that direction and also that could also be fixed with with hiring so the biggest thing I see is actually hiring oh we have a few

00:13:48 companies I've been trying to hire for a while and it's delaying the product and you know the founders have like a certain amount of they have a certain runway before they have to go raise money and if they're not building product like efficiently yeah then that makes it tough to hit those metrics at that little annotation investors want to see and with your fun being more of a hands-on investor what are some of those things your phone is actually doing to help these founders of the startups that you invest in yeah I

00:14:17 think there's a few ways that that we like to help one company needed some distribution and in Asia so we we set them up with a little and to talk and have conversations with the logistics provider there another few companies my portfolio it's like all about fundraising so how to position themselves and you know making making a presentation that the deck basically for them for the next round introducing them to new new PCs I mean these punches are so busy their heads down they're not meeting like how like they're not bitter

00:14:53 every day is like on like with their team not going out meeting investors like like what my job is supposed to be doing so so yeah so sometimes they lean on me for fundraising the other thing is I think business development there's a lot of I think it's your job as a venture capitalist to make to have relationships in many different sectors and different and have have a network so you can act like as a corporate development or business development arm for you for your founder so getting customers in

00:15:23 having them run pilots going through the contracts of doing a lot of that type of work I think we help with and yeah and another and then there's hiring and then the other last buck I think I like to I think times have come in coming to me for is I just like talking through problems they just need an external oh it's almost like a it's a someone just a sound just a bounce stuff off of yeah to be able to text when things are going great and when things are going bad it's good for them to talk to someone outside

00:16:04 the organization and now how many companies are in the portfolio gosh there's quite a bit because we have some in we have a we have an in investments in India as well but I want to say there's around 30 okay around 30 yeah believe I think 25 core like we've had the company did like some smaller investments as like kind of expose our still investments but yeah around 30 and what are some of those team issues you've seen that can derail startup luckily we haven't had that many I think in one or two of our companies always

00:16:38 like a you know like a like a third co-founder that side just the split for whatever reason and and those are those are like it pretty big issues because now you kind of wonder what happens with whatever they were leading and weapons to their you know like would they buy them out and think it was like oh all those have a problem yeah right we haven't had that many most of our issues have been around the hiring piece but we haven't had luckily you know like knock on wood we haven't had a lot of girls yeah which is really good but I've

00:17:14 seen it before so yeah I mean when you have seen it what is it typically then like what does it it been about or just like is it the equity is it the roles of the the founders and what types of things that they can typically fight okay it could be about that but it's also the just like a culture fit and I think there's a lot of founders that I've seen in the past that don't think this is like such a hard job because you're you know using someone else's money to and you're risking capital yeah so a lot of founders well like I think a

00:17:46 lot of pounds like like work a lot and there's some founders that so and those founders may think that someone on their team is not not bringing it as much as they are so so that I think there's a little bit that always causes like like like anger like in you know within a team yeah what else have I seen yeah I think that's the main thing like some founders like want I guess don't have the same like level work I think that someone else 19 doesn't and that cost a lot of conflict yeah I can see that I

00:18:20 mean yeah someone's working 12 14 hours and then someone else is working the 8 yeah not putting the same amount of effort in especially the depending on equity pieces to you know there's so many different things with that and a lot of its communication and a lot of it could be solved through communication sometimes people you know people sometimes people aren't there because they have they have families to tend to and that and that's that's totally fine I mean me shouldn't always be like working 16 hours a day I don't think

00:18:45 it's healthy it's not sustainable so yeah so there's that too and I think communication sometimes an issue I think things could be with in the era of like digital and texts emails something could be read to look totally different tone yeah so I think that causes like problems do is that how that and that's like perception right yeah but how's that working with so many like remote teams and the you have a founder team then a team that's not in the same location obviously how do you how does that work how do you see that going it's

00:19:16 think you have to be you know I worked at Amazon you have to be pretty much like read it like as it is not don't take it as a as I don't take things like as a compliment and don't take it as as a as a negative like take it for what it is yeah I think emojis help with that funny enough and also communication I guess like how often you communicate helps I think being responsive some people take not being responsive as a scientist respect when it's but when literally people are just like you know time blocks sometimes so

00:19:57 think talking about these things internally is like super important and I luckily I'll have to come in and and and we fix those issues but sometimes the founder will ask like so what do you like how should I take this from like a customer that had this to me or not not even someone on their team and then I tell them like we can your initial response to that is probably not correct I look at it a little bit more unbiased yeah yeah yeah and you mention a little bit how they can kind of succeed with

00:20:32 that is there anything else that from like a team perspective and at the beginning of their company or early on that could be helpful for setting them up for success relate to those team issues would you always suggest they'd be in the same location suggest to have lines of communication in place and know what set expectations in beginning like what types of things can they do to kind of give myself the best chance yeah I think it's important to set up one decide when you're setting for the company actually set the mission so you

00:21:01 know what the North Star is so that your decisions will all like revolve around that at least broadly speaking and then the second thing introduced in parallel I think it's important for them to set cultural values so that people are very are very specific about about how they communicate and how they hire and how they and you know and how they and and the work ethic as well so so yeah I think those things are very important and we've seen companies you know hopefully I do that it's definitely been like a game changer

00:21:38 yeah starting there yeah cuz there's companies I've seen from the beginning start that off and then we would come into companies that like you know have already raised a round of funding or whatever so we didn't see that but for the minority of the comment that we have done like we've seen that like be very important and it sounds like kind of silly cuz it's like people think it's fluff but it's it's really not so yeah so yeah so like I think I would suggest that and now we'll take a quick break

00:22:06 and hear from our sponsor Breck's a big heartfelt thank you to Breck's who is out there support this show would not be possible we've seen firsthand the difficulties accessing basic corporate credit without providing a security deposit or personal guarantee early on as companies grow managing expenses has become more difficult and time-consuming which is why we've partnered with Breck's to offer a corporate credit card that is not personally guaranteed offers higher credit limits provides auto reconciliation and integrates with ERPs

00:22:37 using receipt capture Breck's is the credit card let's start ecosystem and we highly encourage you to check them out and back to the show all right mark so what areas of like investing in terms of it's just the whole landscape of different ideas and things out there what are you most excited about the future coming up here you know we invest in that space we're still looking at it but we're we're watching what Google's doing and what what Microsoft is doing and I'm not sure if you're familiar with Google stadia yeah

00:23:19 so the we're seeing this trend right now towards subscriptions like we saw in video so to me like that's an interesting trend that that we're looking to participate in in some way I I still think this place is really fascinating but it's like virtual influencers base yeah and we're looking at like I guess we call it or beta works calls it like synthetic media we actually made an investment in a company that takes you know samples of your voice and then you can recreate your voice in any any way how they take a

00:24:09 deep scary but no it's fun it's exciting though but but practical use cases are like you know consumer electronics companies you know being able to get the right actor and language and things like that for certain demographics is important to them and you know a foreign translation dubbing things like that and podcasting right like it's kind of interesting interesting thing that we're seeing in terms of audio and a body of this space that's why we did that investment but speaking of other things were interested

00:24:43 in like looking at audio just in general podcasting has been coming back up I think since Spotify has done those two applications it's been interesting space we've been seeing some companies look at funds invest and companies are enabling podcasters to make money right and for us that fits because for like these are content creators and they're trying to find ways to make money and to distribute the content like how do we invest and support that they have no system seeing a lot of interesting things

00:25:23 happen in the in the direct-to-consumer space I think a lot of I've seen there's a we're not investors in it but we've seen plays where these brands are buried or reaching their consumers through different medium now which is like text it's not just like Facebook Instagram advertising anymore they're going direct to consumer so they need I guess different marketing channels so that's kind of one one space we're looking at like just kind of like text communication like I said like wellness is a space that we're interested in we

00:26:09 did one investment and it's a live it's like a live meditation and we're just like looking in that space in general I don't know what's going to happen there in the future but I think the business model of subscriptions yeah so we're interested in that we're watching what's happening there yeah it's like do people just sign up for classes and all stuff what can I subscribe yeah right yeah and even what's that to like just looking at different spaces and how the industry is changing how do you find out about that

00:26:50 what sources are you looking at to find out information who are you talking to I'm curious how you actually form that like what's the future gonna be what things are happening how do you do that even you know seems talking about of course so yeah I mean that's literally part of the part of the job I get a probably the morning until I could read what's what's going on I try spend an hour and a half reading yeah that's how I I get my news how we form an opinion about it is like 10 when I talked about like we do we do

00:27:40 this newsletter and we keep track of what's going on then we talk about it every quarter like so what does mean like like long term where's the trend heading towards yeah and like well it kind of like what's in and like what's kind of phasing out yeah and that's from Matson obviously the industry perspective of different different companies different industries in terms of VC itself then how do you see in the next few years valuations and I think that's because there's just like we're seeing more I'm seeing more seed

00:28:42 funds pop up and more Scouts more Scout work and Scouts really come from the larger funds seeing a lot of that happen in I think that's it's not exactly new but I've seen more and more and more of it yeah seeing a lot of angellist funds created which is which is pretty cool so yeah I think overall like I'm just I'm just seeing a lot more more funds yeah and ways to for entrepreneurs to get capital yeah and then kind of in that same vein then with that what they're being more funds and there's just seems to be way more

00:29:19 capital out there as the markets are good for now never know what's gonna happen that's on their discussion but then what should entrepreneurs be looking for in in a VC or in an investor what are some of the things that entrepreneurs should be looking forwards obviously there's the VC side there where they're looking for founders and entrepreneurs but there's the other side of the to where the entrepreneurs are looking for certain investors so what should they be looking for as an entrepreneur you know if you see or an

00:29:44 investor and there's certain partners that certain funds that focus like on digital entertainment so you should definitely be talking to someone who has that kind of industry experience so and so I came from you know an aerospace background but I don't work in that specifically but talk if you were raising for like a company someone like me who had my background who's working aerospace before and who runs a fun focus on that you should be talking it's obvious the second thing is you should be talking to two beasties

00:30:42 that I guess that you vibe with because this is a long relationship and you're not really gonna know that until you start working with them but you should just I got like how founders like heavily reference check boundaries always reference your visas yeah I think there's some really smart angel capital out here in LA there's a lot of smart people that did really well and snapchat snapchat the best thing you should be talking to those those people who can who's seen you know who started a company and taking it to the next level

00:31:23 yeah and they it just talked to top to be sees where you think you know we have industry expertise that's good in your vertical at your building and who could connect you to the right people in that industry and who have the customers yeah right it's a huge value add obviously yeah if you're looking for a partner and not just the capital it's clearly you know you're gonna get money from someone it eventually assuming you succeed with the fundraising side of it it's like what is the extra value add you can get

00:31:54 from the investor that helps you grow your company faster yeah and and just adding a little bit deeper into that process what are some of those questions maybe that entrepreneurs should be asking VCS especially if someone doesn't really have the experience what should they be asking that investor in the first place so just from that yeah from a new entrepreneur where are some questions they could ask a potential investor to get a better feel for if the right fit obviously there's the industry expertise but are there any other

00:32:26 questions that kind of come to mind that like yeah this entrepreneur should be asking the venture capitalists this question asking questions on here's some really I think a founder should ask to reference with the founder that they work with that was successful assuming they have one yeah successful and one where things didn't pan out you kind of know how a VC is when if they how they work with a company that that didn't quite pan out I think that it's very telling of whether or not there really will be like

00:33:07 supportive of you or they're just regular coattails yeah I mean it's a very it's kind of a hard conversation for me to have because it's like it's it's cuz lien has a VC it's it's tough like most the companies do you fail and our time is very limited and we're supposed to be spending you know time making the winners win more yeah but you know you eat especially the early stage you never know where these things are gonna go and I think it's important for founder for new founders to reference what how the BC has worth like you know

00:33:41 be very direct just asked have you with this bounder or this matter before yeah and asking for it into them yeah I think those are pretty important and you know they can be provide specific holiday help them fundraise how they help them introduce the customers how they help them you know in other ways yeah that's the closest thing to being already having them as an investor just talking to people who've already had them or have them currently as their investor it seems like a kind of a quick way to get a feel for what they're gonna

00:34:19 be like moving forward because like you said is a long term relationship it's not ideally it's a very long term relationship where it allows success on both sides you really have to have an understanding of what you're getting yourself into it seems like you're like oh cool I'm like I'm validated but I think it's important to step back to to understand like is this personally to be really hard hard to deal with like because venture does right yeah I mean they're investing for a reason yeah you don't want an investor that's asking you

00:35:08 for like every single day so you know just trying to I think ask questions around how they work with other founders and the communications down and just see if that works with you yeah the one thing to it you mentioned there being so many like new venture funds out there now if you can't get references from there how do you deal with that then hasn't found it I think there's because like the funds that are started and probably spent time adventure before and yeah knowing especially in Los Angeles every VC like knows each

00:35:47 other very small community so just asks dead everyone's kept everyone's connected on LinkedIn so yeah Facebook so just do it that way yeah I'll find their investing history in some capacity yeah you know I because we were a new fund that we've had to go through that process sometimes so it was like another founder I'm sure they reference someone I didn't even know about and that's fine they should totally do that because I'm doing that to them as well yeah yeah and they kind of go in just super into like

00:36:33 how you actually spend your time as a VC nowadays like what I'm sure it's different day-to-day but like what does your day day kind of look like I guess zoom I think I like to break my day out into okay so I get up early in the morning and read and then I'll try to spend like two to three hours doing like deep work which is like mainly portfolio focused or just focus on the fun making sure things are straight and putting together our newsletter and updating our strategy documents for the next quarter

00:37:17 and then the other rest the rest of that time is either and then at the end the day I like to reserve that for like having dinner with someone else in the industry who's like a VC or who's like a subject matter expert in a space or tap dinner with a co-founder so yeah honestly like those are kind of my main activities yeah which is a lot of fun yeah yeah I mean like that's part of your that's your job and you need to meet all these different people yeah fun interesting thing yeah it's definitely you know I look at it

00:37:50 like yeah and with kind of the has a startup nature you can work all the time it's like people do but you mentioned the whole burnout thing as well from the VC side of it then how are you kind of preventing it for yourself do I try to do like like at least but then I've noticed like personally I've been doing like 14 so what I like to do is I I like to work out and make sure that's on my calendar I feel like calendar I gotta stop here I literally calendar like what I'm gonna watch Netflix yeah yeah yeah

00:38:54 yeah so and and also another half I have is like I have like no meeting Fridays unless it's so I think that that has helped yeah that way I can get all like the work work except I need to get done like the desk work yeah and there's that more money through Friday anything about weekends is it off on weekends is it kind of answering some emails on it yeah it's like I figure there's yeah we'll just kind of expected by beside if you enjoy it too it is a it's a different thing versus things you if you'd read

00:39:30 everything it would be a lot worse I imagine with BC just curious quickly on has it been kind of what you expected when you got into it because you obviously we said we were Amazon other companies before how did you get into BC and is it what you expected yeah I think travel which we get to do but then there's a lot of hard times and you know typically they save like a third of your companies like don't do well there will be even or maybe make a small return on it these will help you return the fund and

00:40:34 and you know dealing with the problems at the bottom third is there just any company that seed I think in my opinion because they're still like struggling they're still seed companies it's that part it's not as glamorous like once you see like a company is having a hard time raising or having to like like renew the strategy and I'm like this is like a big pivot or when you see new people everyone's pivoting nowadays but I used to be like this is so scary but now it's a great normal you don't think about

00:41:13 those things before you like actually get the job if you think venture is about you know think back like what they do on TV and like being like saying yes or no that's definitely yeah we're analyzing the deal and you know like that that's probably what it is like early on but then later it's more like you're much more in-depth in in certain businesses and in the minds of and just like in the personal life also of the entrepreneur because that's all affecting kind of the outcome of the business yeah yeah I didn't know it

00:41:50 would get like so like this deep yeah yeah which is a lot yeah sure but I so there's that but it's it's I would say the job is pretty mantra Nouriel itself which I corporate yeah yeah much different than the VC route you're currently and then just kind of wrap things up here I'm just curious as to any resources best resources for entrepreneurs to help them whether they're you know just starting their businesses growing their businesses because there's they need help in many ways it's so tough to build

00:42:30 a business I'm curious if you know of anything specifically to point them to that may be helpful for entrepreneurs there's a lot so much birds don't have you're working to raise venture capital like go on Twitter go follow the people that that you want to raise from see how they are thought to see what their their view of the world is so so I understand how to build towards that view and it's like your own like CRM investors so as they definitely start like list building for entrepreneurs as they get started especially one of

00:43:14 working better good sits at this stage for raising capital and getting early customers it's kind of a relationship game yeah for sure and then mark where's the best way to reach out to you get in touch with you if everyone's trying to contact you I'm on it and it's a good way to catch me should be saying this but it's a good way to catch me versus email because email it gets sick so crowded yeah who's on Twitter perfect mark thank you so much that time today appreciate it yeah thank you thanks for checking out step

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