00:00:00 moving the needle on founder failure one conversation at a time I'm your host Justin Gordon and welcome to startup 2.0 by spark XYZ join us each week as we give you access to some of the top investors and entrepreneurs in the country to help you think through and overcome the top challenges that startup space [Music] today's guest is Drew Leahy managing partner and co-founder of Hawk ventures which is an early-stage VC fund here in Los Angeles Drew's also one the nicest people you'll meet and he's was formerly the

00:00:36 co-founder of snap suits drew welcome to the show thanks happy to have you on here and where I want to start off with with hawk ventures it's just where you guys are focused on in terms of where you're investing sure what areas so we're really focused on software an ad tech and Mar tech that complements what Hawk media as an agency really does every single day which is growth marketing so our goal is to invest in software companies where we can leverage our 400 plus clients a month we can leverage our team of 165 employees we're

00:01:07 growing like crazy our clients are growing like crazy how can we invest in software that our team loves diligences and is already using or wants to use right so that's the main focus of the fund but we also do some consumer tech where we have deep data deep expertise relationships that are and give us the ability to help them explode their growth yeah so whether that's a client that we've been working with for 10 months that explodes out from under us or I'm a referral from another you know VC or angel that those

00:01:37 are the those are the two kinds of companies that we really want to work with yeah and to that point I'm like what is your kind of average check size and how many investments roughly are you trying to make a year yep so a hundred of 250k check sizes very aggressive follow-on when we see the companies are doing well and then we want to do six deals a year that's kind of what our goal is and we'll we'll do about 30 deals out of our portfolio okay and you kind of mention this a little bit but in terms of your like investment thesis or

00:02:04 strategy can used to go a little bit deeper into that what that is right now yeah so I mean basically we started Hawk ventures two years ago when we were making a lot of angel investments off the balance sheet and so what we realized is that we were investing in companies that the that we were using with our team and our clients were using and so I mean you know clay v/o we are number one the number one referral partners for clavia and it would've been really nice if we could have back to 250k to that company when

00:02:32 they started that's the perfect example right and so we're looking for companies that we can you know really wrap our hands around and explode their own growth right so you know I would love to be able to send you know 25 to 50 companies to a portfolio company that I invest in a month I mean that's that's the definition of strategic investing right and so that's really what our strategy's about is how is Haq strategic to this investment outside of the hundred or 250k I put in capitals great but like what else am i doing on the

00:03:04 value-add side to be a bigger partner yeah and to that point he said two years ago at launch so how is that kind of evolved in the last six to twelve months how is that changing yeah so two years ago I started doing the angel investments for Hawk media they hired me and about a year in started looking at all their investments they had a combination of marketing trades and angel investments and all the the angel investments off the balance sheet were performing super well and I said guys like why don't we double down on this

00:03:31 side yeah and do a little bit less on the equity side since it's a lot of time and it's not it's not quite gonna generate the returns at these you know that the angel investments are doing and so that's when Hawk ventures the venture fund started and so we did our first close in April a little under two million and we made for our first four investments that we made a fifth investment recently into one of our clients yeah and then to that point into with the actual diligence process sure it was it looks like for you guys right

00:04:00 now everyone's different obviously a little bit but I wasn't like for hoc ventures yeah so I created something at the agency called the hawk Adventure Club and so it's a team of about 30 different experts across every single department and we meet every single month and one of the things I do is bring up the companies that my associate and I our diligence saying so there's kind of a several pronged process you know we look at companies we score them we have some sort of numerical analysis around what we think about them then we

00:04:30 bring it to the hoc Adventure Club and we do some audits and we do some creative strategy and we get some feedback from a larger pool of people and then as GPS we vote on which on the companies that we want to invest in it's really difficult to say like what the average time is yeah like I could diligence a company for 12 weeks because like we need to put it on to a client and we need to look at the data and we need to create a case study and so like it could be a little bit frustrating but because for us like we're like do we

00:05:00 like do we want to use this like it's more than just saying like do I like the founder and it's just a big enough market and is there Attraction enough am i comfortable like it's kind of deeper than that and so it can take a little bit longer for us especially on the software side yeah because we really just want to roll our sleeves up and like see how much we love it see what the product roadmap is gonna look like if we can make some suggestions like you know so it takes I would I would say it

00:05:26 takes anywhere from from six to twelve weeks usually to do a deal yeah you said I see how much you actually love that process then what are some of the things in that were like this company for sure I we wanted to deeper into it what are some of them maybe those characteristics or traits or yeah you've seen so far yeah so I mean when I'm looking at a software that's we're gonna put on the clients or put on to our experts it's like how does it increase revenue or how does it decrease time or somehow save

00:05:51 someone money yeah right very basic and so if it execute on that well and the team likes it like that's what I want to see right that in combination with the company growing already so what I really like to see is I like to see founders who have their marketing together right I want to see their marketing at operating at an a- or a b+ level already without me right yeah and then what I want to do is come in and make that last 10% or 15% to make it an a-plus-plus right and so I think a lot of founders

00:06:21 like oh I need help with marketing like maybe Hawk Ventures will invest and it's like I'm looking for the people who already like have it together and I can make it even better right so that's kind of one thing I see the other thing is I'm really big into founders who have in like run businesses before like ultimately I'm investing in companies that are doing somewhere between 20 and 100 K and monthly revenue okay so these are people who have built a business already sure it's not like a startup

00:06:48 that hasn't got off the ground yet like we just don't invest that way we invest in growing businesses that's what we like to say yeah I mean it's to your strengths and your skill set already of be able to next level with what you guys have it seems yeah and and then to a point where are some of those knows in terms of things that you're looking for that yeah that's just obviously a pass or at the different levels you pass on is there on making six investments roughly yeah here I quarter some of

00:07:09 those things maybe yes so I mean maybe it's like some of the things that like are turn offs or things that we see that we're like maybe so I mean I'm all about execution like I want to see founders just executing and executing as beautifully as possible right it can be a little concerning when there's like hiccups oh you're you're trying to test a product and it's not going very well like that's something that is sort of a trigger if you will obviously there's always going to be stuff right it's

00:07:36 never going to be perfect like I'm well aware of that right but for me it's all about like execution follow-up being really like on top of your organization and you know I really can I can really see the founders that are like where the lights on and they're really like executing and they're really interested to work with us and excited um so I really look for that the other thing is I think a lot of companies don't calculate their cost to acquire a customer properly yeah and so I look at a deck and they're like our cost to

00:08:09 acquire customers $2.50 and I'm like how'd you come up with that number and they're like well I just did all of my marketing spend divided by all my sales and that's Mike and I'm like no like that's that's not really it so I love like when I can see a footnote that says the cost to acquire customer is calculated by this Facebook cohort and this Google cohort and it's you know whatever like I like to see that there's some sophistication yeah more more depth on that with them as well yeah yeah and

00:08:36 to a point you mentioned with the GPS making that decision how does that that process go for you guys in terms of deciding on which investments to use yeah so I mean so Eric and Tony who are the CEO and CEO of hawk Huk media we have an investment committee with the three of us and so tony's and operations he's very finance oriented and also very founder oriented eric is super founder oriented loves the big picture is really good at saying no to deals like eric is kind of the backstop and i'm the

00:09:07 opportunity guy like that's our union yang which is great like I think that we have the three of us when we're all really excited about a deal it's like it's magic right I've actually read a lot of people that and the investment world that are said that say like consensus is like really bad and there's usually somebody who's a naysayer and somebody has to fight for it or whatever and I think in our case if we're all excited about it and our team is excited about it and there's data around it it's

00:09:34 like it's a no-brainer it's like yeah this is the kind of company we want to invest in so I'm always looking for those like escalating levels of excitement for us yeah in order to say yes to working with the company because we're only working with six a year yeah and they're getting access to a massive marketing team and a massive like massive group of of clients so we're really careful about who we you know who we work with yeah and then you're just a little deeper into like the actual founders themselves you talked us

00:10:00 through a little bit like how you are valuing them in these meetings you have with them these with them and what are you looking for well you know Paige Craig is one of our venture partners who works with us um and we've talked a lot about how that every founder is so different there is not a mold you know and in fact I will really look for the unique characteristics that make a founder who they are I was talking about one of my best friends on the phone the other night and he's capital-raising

00:10:31 right now and and and I was like just be authentic like whatever is the most authentic version of this email that you're writing to this investor for this term feat whatever I'm like just be super authentic like don't try to be anything that's like unabashedly yourself you know and so I tell founders like that's what makes you strong is like what is what is your strengths like if you were the only person in this company like what's the main thing you would be like what do you focus on right and so I

00:10:59 really try to lean into founders strengths see how it complements what we do and then make sure that we can fill in the the weaknesses with the proper hires right we have proper team and so I'm really looking for those those types of founders that just stand out as people yeah there's no like there's no rubric there's no I really like maniacal founders that are super good at sales or I really like sort of empathic like thinker founders it's like they're just it depends on the business and depends

00:11:30 on the team and yeah and with that team then how do you look at the team itself and avowing them in terms of the investment side of it like what are you looking for in a team obvious again it could be different between every single team but yeah I'm just kissing your perspective my way think about it I try to stay away from those Wisconsin Badgers college guys too smart or you know better than Michigan people maybe that were this maybe that's what it is yeah so there's a lot there's a lot of like there's a lot of kind of people who

00:11:58 have different opinions on this I kind of love a combination of like super scrappy entrepreneurs who made me come out of nowhere and they've built a business before but like they didn't even go to college or like I have a soft spot for those types of people that are just scrappy and hardworking and like have the ability to build stuff yeah but I also like you know I love looking at a deck and seeing a CEO Oh whose was that McKinsey and has worked in e-commerce for seven years and you know is and you look at the deck and you look

00:12:28 at the finances and you're like yeah like this makes sense like check right and so there's you know for me it's I want to see a well-rounded team where there's deep experience right like it's it's frustrating when I see somebody who's on a deck who's like I'm the CFO and it's like well what else have you been the CFO of and they're like nothing and like so you're just like a seat in a chair you know right I don't know like I think that that's where that's where I want to see expertise is is I want to

00:12:58 see people that have done these roles before in some capacity and I always tell people if you're trying to hire someone go take them from somewhere else like don't hire somebody who doesn't have a job right now because there's I mean I'm sure there's plenty of good reasons but like the best person to hire is like that person over there who's doing their job who's been there for 18 months like go get that person yeah that's just my own there's a reason why you got that job yeah yeah yeah and then going into

00:13:26 the team a little bit more to like what are some of those issues you're seeing with them or it's been two years for hoc venture so far but where are some of the issues you're seeing with the startups and the teams that you're working with so far well I've seen like key hires are so important yeah in my past and in companies that I've worked with that like that head of sales or that head of marketing hire like those are the ones that to me feel like are really tough and I've also talked to like you know

00:13:52 multi eggs like multi million exited founders who are like no every single position is tough to hire for like there's not one that's more than the other they're all super hard and I was like fair fair but uh but yeah I think I think it's like balancing that like how much can I pay someone or what's the equity compensation how long are they going to be here what happens if I don't like them in four months how do you compensate a sales person the very big it like you know there's like a lot of those tough questions and so it's really

00:14:21 important to hire the right people it's a really important to spend a little bit more time maybe spend a little bit more money and might get that right person yeah and you can even do all those things and still have the wrong person so it's like it's really important to to hire properly I've been in positions where you just want to get a guy or a gal in the seat and doing it so you don't have to do it yourself because you're just tired and like that is the biggest mistake that you can make yeah and then

00:14:51 knowing that obviously the team side of it is one part of it but also just the business itself or the business model and having the experience from hawk-like what are things are you seeing issues or challenges that these startups are going through because obviously have such a strong team that can help them but what are the other challenges maybe you've seen so far anything that maybe stands out for you struggle well yeah I'm trying to think I mean I think like when you're early as a company and you have a business

00:15:15 that you're not like just building for two years and launching when you're operating a business and you're early and you're doing like 5 10 20 you know 50k in revenue yeah like everything is about growth and so I think like what I see a lot of founders not doing is just thinking a little bit more of like how can I get just a little more growth because that growth will compound right and so I teach a lot of sort of exercises around like the growth flywheel which is like users come into your system purchasers come into your

00:15:52 system they fly around a wheel and they come out the other side and then that on that that other side that's coming in is pumping in while growth and it's like I used to be a band manager I used to be an artist and it's like when you're showing up to a venue and your job is to get one fan a night to like love you and it's like one by one by one by one and then all of a sudden it's two by two and then it's three and then they're talking about it and then it's four and it's like you have to build your business

00:16:21 like a customer at a time and I think that a lot of times founders are thinking so big and I want to do this partnership and this debt the other it's like yeah like one by one like customer by customer like how can you really flex that you know I'm a big proponent of that and it's important for you to be able to zoom out and zoom in and just be able to kind of have both pictures yeah achieved that yeah and say what you want is customers that actually love your product in the first place you don't have the right right the right

00:16:48 customer and be able to acquire them and then with what you've seen in the last you know year - with hawk then I mean the businesses that explode the businesses they're really crushing it so far working with you like what is it about them it's just the perfect product fit but the team I I'll tell you it's it's it's a combination of product market fit and timing yeah right the ridge wallet guys the bottle keeper guys I mean they're like one SKU companies but they're massive yeah right and it's just there there's such great lessons in

00:17:25 like how to be smart and keep it simple and like find an audience and like just really do a good job tapping into that audience that likes what you have right and so I think that as a marketer you're always gonna have like the marketer product conversation it's always gonna be you know you can't just always put lipstick on a pig it's gonna sell like you can't right I mean it's not how it works and so I think that the the brands that have done really well are super good at building a brand they're really good at managing

00:17:59 costs and they're really good at just finding that right customer and so what I always say is like it's really like in my opinion like what I've been able to see is if you have a decent product it's easy to acquire a customer and it's way harder to retain them yeah and it's way harder to keep them coming back and so like a lot of founders focus on the on the customer acquisition side and they're just not really thinking about retention they're not really thinking about like how do I keep them how do I have them reorder how

00:18:27 do I do all that's because I spend so much time and energy on the customer acquisition side how do I keep on like how am i finding the right people how do I turn off that Facebook audience which is cheap and they're buying but they're never buying again versus this audience which is a little more but they're buying six times and it's like you know it's it's it's a conversation and it's it's it can be difficult to kind of look at those yeah well especially imagine they're trying to grow so fast they're

00:18:53 really worried about new customers new comers new customers but as you're looking like the lifetime value which is hard to think about if you're trying to the next 12 to 6 you know 18 months how do you tell them to handle that situation knowing that you know they're trying to raise money and then to get to that next the next raise like how do they how do you mention that they should approach that situation the short term versus long term you know that seems like a tough situation to kind of it's

00:19:17 it's very difficult advice to say like kind of a cross now yeah it's so situational yeah right it's it's there's like a hundred factors that go into being like here's what we should do now sure right so it's difficult but I think I think what you have to do is take a step back and just you got to have goals you gotta have some sort of okay our structure and it's like where are we going what are the key results how can we affect those key results and like that's all you can really do right yeah and so if it's well we need

00:19:47 to hire one more salesperson and spend a little bit more money on Facebook ads because we're driving these leads and we're converting them at forty percent so it's like all right well we just need to do more of this like that's focus on that like I think it just it takes it takes a decent amount of data analysis and and just an understanding of like how what are our main goals yeah and do we need capital to hit those goals do we have data to support raising capital for those goals and and so yeah I think it's it's

00:20:19 difficult it's a difficult like one size fits all yeah and one more thing I'm kind of that same thing with the current companies working with are they're pretty accepting of having a relatively hands-on it seems like your hands-on venture firm or is it like they have some pushback for you I'm just fear something that because there's all different types of some are so totally hands-off if you yourself like I think if you called all five of our founders we've invested in they were like they're like yes yeah like please look over my

00:20:45 shoulder please tell me where I can shore things up yeah like please be there to help me so that I don't have to like stress about this all because like they know that we're we're here right and so ya know it's like the point of our investment is because they want us inside partner yeah and so it's funny because most investors and most founders like that conversation is like who your investors really gone like that's difficult like oh no like be careful like that's what a lot of sure the adage says right but when you have

00:21:18 these resources and this expertise in this data and it's like no no like that's the reason why we want you in the show so you know I think that when rounds are getting really squeezed especially at the early stage of the series Abe we found time and time again that like people want us in their deal from other capital which is like that's one of the hardest things if you're an investor and you don't have a lot of deal flow and you're trying to get into a good deal it's like well why why should I be in my

00:21:45 day yeah you know and so it's great that like our founders respect it and appreciate us and want us to be in their deals sometimes we don't have the capital outlay or we're not you know not going to invest but they still want us in the deal and so it's it's a you know it's a it's a big old game you know yeah what are you most excited about right now like the future of the startup landscape things you're seeing trends you're seeing what do you what are you saying about right now well the ecosystem that we really focus

00:22:14 on is this sort of e-commerce digital software meets direct-to-consumer subscription with like this combination of retail and it's like all this like consumer products and consumer technology and how it touches and creates interactions and so like that's the whole kind of ecosystem that we live and breathe in you know I mean look at what Shopify has done for entrepreneurship in this country right I mean if we really zoom out that's the ecosystem that we play in right we make websites we grow companies with Facebook

00:22:49 ads and email marketing and SMS marketing and content and that's the world we live in and so I just get really excited when I see super cool tools that like hit my desk and like I nerd out about the software oh yeah well for sure like I mean I love a good consumer tech company I love a good consumer brand but like there's just element of risk and consumer that doesn't quite exist as much in the software side it's a kind of a different kind of risk in my opinion so but I'm like an operator nerd I'm like oh my

00:23:21 gosh so I could like throw on this Facebook ad plug-in and I could integrate it with this Shopify app and like we'll get all this extra data and then we can do this retargeting for LTV like that's the type of stuff that I geek out on yeah and so when I see these products hit my table or come into my email and I talked to a founder who's been working in the space and or came from an agency and built this technology or whatever like I just I love that yeah and so that's what I'm looking for ultimately and then on the consumer side

00:23:50 like the brand and the data and the founders like that's what leads everything like I'm not like man I'm really looking at stuff in the consumer AR space like that's just not a part of our like you know not that specifically but like we don't have like like big DC's consumer or software it's just like hey look what's working what are great ideas we want to be a petri dish for these ideas and grow them and to you know and to massive mighty trees you know and so we want to do yeah and so that's that's

00:24:25 kind of like why we've built this ecosystem with hawk media and all of our partners and our investors in our fund and everyone it's like how do we bring all this to the table to accelerate stuff that's that's really cool and working really well yeah and then even within like venture capital itself like where do you see that going next four years and where things are noticing changes maybe coming up yeah I mean look I think that people have been writing the last few years that very nish focused funds are going to be really

00:24:55 successful because they just have a very concrete purpose and they're also value added and so that's nothing to say that you know the big VCS that have been around the last ten years or even the last five years aren't gonna do really great but there's a pocket for these sort of micro VC funds anything under 100 million where they're focused on a particular category or a particular sort of you know I think it's beyond a thesis it's more like an algorithm what I say like my like the way I'm looking at

00:25:26 companies they have to check so many boxes and there's all these little nuances and things that have to just yeah effect and then I'm like oh great and that's not just like my opinions it's like people on the team its clients it's data it's like a very massive like kind of diligence process that we run to just make sure that everything makes sense right and so you know I I just I see that sort of world being much more prevalent and we see funds starting up all the time yeah that's and it's like

00:25:58 there's a I go to all these VC events these young VC events and the west side and get invite of these things that there's like a new fund or new GP or a new managing partner and new associate or whatever I'm like wow this is great like more you know more capital into the ecosystem so many entrepreneurs who want that capital and so I think it's it's cool just seeing how people are starting to link up with found that have a very specific need and a very specific niche yeah one of my I've talked to a woman this week who's

00:26:30 starting a a venture capital fund for four bucks really for about that Anish yeah I mean but like it's not like it's that it's a lot of people eat bugs across the world if you look at that yeah I mean you I mean there's like there's bugs and all sorts of different food alternatives and stuff and so it's it's fantastic I was like this is so cool this is so amazing like I really want you to find LPS that like want to invest in bugs like this is awesome you know yeah and so so yeah I mean there's like I just I I find that to be really

00:27:04 extremely interesting and so if you're like a fund manager or you're at a family office like they're gonna start seeing so many more of these like very niche funds and so like I think we're gonna start seeing family offices create more fun to funds where they're like putting these small checks into like a bunch of really cool niche funds that don't even really touch each other at all yeah but they can see like what's poppin and like where those where those GPS are finding these really nish growing

00:27:34 products and I mean I think I think that's super exciting and so I think that that's where the VC industry is going is having a lot more smaller or medium sized ones until I point though how do you think that changes things for the entrepreneurs themselves then they just be looking for a smaller one like well no I think I think it actually makes capital-raising easier for them okay like you know I ran a custom suits company with my brother and it's like if there was a fashion tech fund that was

00:28:02 focused on men it's like I would just go to them and I'm like here's all my data like here's what we're building like do you like me cool let's go so I think I think it actually makes it easier for entrepreneurs if you don't just have to like bang down the doors and be like huge venture capital firms but you don't have a relationship with them and you didn't sell three companies it's like there's all these like it can be so difficult to navigate that space and so at least like VCS they have websites

00:28:29 they tell you what they invest in like and it's the entrepreneurs job find the people that are interested in what they're doing yeah and they got to make that connection yeah I just think it makes it easier yeah and then going into more with where the industry is going in terms of actually where different companies will be started where do you see I guess more and more companies being started certain about certain industries we're like yeah there's gonna be more companies and this this in this space or this space I'm

00:28:54 just wondering if you see that kind of happening soon um in particular areas I'm like I'm so bad at the like here's where things are going question yeah I'm like where are things today right now because that's to me like what I focus on and I'm so like data oriented with the startups in traction oriented that the startups are doing it's like oh like you found that like you did that like yeah that makes sense like wouldn't have thought of that stereo is like the best example of this like why wouldn't somebody start a

00:29:29 network for uber and lyft drivers to play music and get paid for it because musicians want their music heard sure brands want to target people in cars like radio and rideshare drivers want to make more money and it's just like they just like they stapled together all these disparate parts and like created a tech platform got customers created revenue and you're just like wow like how did you just do that like and that's something that I couldn't have sat here into microphone have been like yeah like

00:30:00 man like rideshare like media like it's hard until you see it and you're like that makes sense I see the crystal ball with this yeah so yeah so long yes no I don't know that's fair I mean how many people actually know is the question you know everyone can guess but we don't some people have more I guess more knowledge maybe than others but it's still kind of a crapshoot and all that right so I guess in then that way it's a yeah you look at what you can control right yeah what's out there based on the

00:30:25 actual data of everything yeah I mean I mean I the one category that I've been a big like futurist in is like personal data management and like what happens when you have like theoretically speaking if I could have all of the data that I put into the digital world in one space where I could do something with it I'm like that's just game-changing like I just can't fathom why that somehow doesn't exist yet well I know why because it's you know it's it's these massive castles in the sky that like can't work together

00:31:00 all right they're business models don't work that way but um I just see that space being very very big for the future and it's tough to do like there's no silver bullet there's not like oh I have this idea I'm gonna build it and do it it's like like how are you going to do that because if you get to a certain point somebody's just gonna turn you off right you know I've seen browsers get built I've seen ad networks get built I've seen you know people make API is to like tap it in and single sign-on like

00:31:34 all the stuff and it's like yeah but that's never gonna scale like no one's ever gonna allow that to happen if you have a massive base of people like taking data from your platform combined and somebody else is in creating value so so yeah I think that space like if I'm being like super future yeah that space is just massive I think yeah and it's gonna it's gonna affect our daily lives like I'm very much into like what is what is your daily life how was the company affecting your daily life look I

00:32:01 take uber every day right if you were a direct-to-consumer houseplants company you you look at the plants in your house every day and you water them you do stuff like how does it affect your daily life if you're a company what is software that affects your daily revenue your daily marketing you know yeah so that that for me is is important yeah and there's something with that too I know people are seem to be concerned about their data and privacy and everything but you think about how that data makes it personalized for them and

00:32:29 better for them and I think if consumers start to understand that more and more that may be okay with some of the data being like shared but we'll see where that ends up going yeah I mean ultimately I think it's about control it's an opt-in yeah I mean the truth is is if you can come start combining data silos like the data becomes like exponentially more relevant and valuable and I think that that's that's the critical mass that we need to hit um yeah we'll see where it goes and well we've talked a lot about obviously your

00:32:58 fun where that's going and what you're looking at on the startup side of things like what do you think founders should be asking these venture capitalists or other funds to find the right fit for them find the best value of them like what do you think they should be asking looking for yeah it's a great question yeah I feel like what when you can learn a lot about the the VCS that you're talking to based on the companies they've already invested in and so for me it's like do your homework like maybe

00:33:28 there's a way you can catch a founder at some event that's speaking and be like hey like how was your like how is the partner at accel ventures you're working with like how was that going or like whatever and they'll be like they're amazing they've done this and that and so I think it's more of like doing your own homework and like understanding how these companies fit in the space and obviously it's like one of the you know you can ask an investor like so what are the type of things that you do for your

00:33:56 companies once you invest like what like what would you do with us if you were you know if everybody was super excited and you invested like how would you how would you work with me right right and that's like a totally fair question to ask so yeah I think it's I think it's just about like doing your homework and then just asking some questions about like what what operations would be like okay and you a lot of times they'll tell you to they're like look we got a recruiting like you know andreessen

00:34:21 horowitz is famous for like having all these services that are around their investments so it's like they like pitch that right that's part of them wanting to get into a deal and so or if you're somebody like quake and you want to be in a deal you're like well look like this is the cohort that you're on and like there's all the things we're gonna teach and so like a lot of that's kind of told to you yeah especially if you're especially if you are you know talking to like a more niche value-added firm

00:34:49 it's like it's very apparent yeah what that relationship should look like I guess it's a - for the founders I mean you mentioned there being more and more niche different firms out there then should they be looking for something more or so aligns with what they they're in kind of industry is or some of the bigger network potentially a bigger brand name I guess you could call it like how do you think they should approach that situation I see a problem yeah yeah no I mean look if like I mean if Craig Croft like loves your deal like

00:35:16 that's awesome like totally like you should do that right especially if like all the interests are Elijah but it's really about like energy and like how people feel about your vision and like you're gonna be with these people for years right and like I'm on a texting basis with all basically like all my founders and it's like it's crazy to think that like potentially four or five years from now like I'm still like having a relationship with that person and so it's like that's the really important

00:35:44 side which is like do you get me do I get you or do we have the right expectations are we aligned like the people side of it is super important and so I think that that goes sometimes beyond like thesis and like investments and stuff like that right yeah you know I have a friend who's on a board with Sequoia and with and with another massive venture capital firm and they basically like go back and forth and they have very different philosophies on growth and he's like it's fascinating to have this the see this sort of like

00:36:26 gentlemen's conversation like like going back and forth like a tennis match nobody's arguing but there's very different viewpoints and so sometimes that's a good thing too right like you don't want to have everybody who's just all bought in and everyone's got the same thing like sometimes you want some varying opinions yeah so it really it really just depends yeah and then with with your Hawk ventures what is your day-to-day like how is that I mean it's a meal of structure in ways I guess a lot of

00:36:54 meetings potentially but I'm just curious of what your kind of day a day right now at least is yeah I got hawk ventures it's a lot of different things it's so many different things we're looking at companies every day we're helping our current portfolio companies grow or do whatever it hit their goals I'm working with the hawk Adventure Club in some capacity on what are we looking at why what are the data you know I also teach the hockey adventure club like tidbits on venture capital so I'll do like what

00:37:29 is in SPV and like water prefer chairs and like what's confidentiality and what's private and what's intellectual property and like so I do a lot of that stuff too I just recently started a new program for family offices which is sort of how do I teach sort of G to SG threes next of kin about venture capital cuz it's kind of like a black box for a lot of people like they're like what is the VC like what do they do right and so I'm taking a lot of the kind of courses that have sort of developed internally and with

00:38:03 some of the teaching that I do it accelerators and I'm like bringing that all together for family offices so that if their kids want to get involved in the family business or whatever like ventures kind of the gateway drug to like making money with money and so you know what's IRR like what is an internal rate of return like a dollar here is like how does that what does how does that return like and so if I can bring startups and bring deal flow and stuff into the mix to like actually do buy like teach by doing yeah that's kind of

00:38:32 the that's kind of the end goal right and so I'm developing a course for that right now and I'm talking to founders a lot I think that that that's my favorite part of the job is doing the founder piece and then we also do like s PBS with our with our investors and our funds so when I find a deal I really like I write a check and then I say hey guys and gals like you know do you guys want to put into this deal specifically you know that kind of thing here's here's why we're doing the deal and so at the big

00:39:03 part of what I've built is sort of like a venture collective it's more than just like write me as three million dollars a check and I'm gonna deploy it and I'll send you a quarterly updates like it's not that kind of schedule it's much more of like a relationship on all sides and so I think that requires a lot of work to to bring those relationships together but I think it's super important and it can be a huge difference in a company to have the right person that can come in at the right place and and

00:39:37 really accelerate some aspect of their business yeah and you mentioned earlier getting kind of how you got into hock ventures but yeah but why did you end up doing so I've always wanted to figure out how I could scale myself yeah and when I'm just working on one company and I'm just the CEO or the CMO or the product or whatever like I'm just like I'm just doing my job and I think what I really like about the venture fund is that I have I'm scaling myself and my experience and all the things that

00:40:13 messed up is on entrepreneur over years it's like hey don't do that now here's why they're like oh yeah I definitely don't want to do that so it's like I have all these anecdotes I always I always joke around like I want to have like a big jar of like anecdotes on my desk hey let me let me reach into this and yep don't don't raise with too high of a cap because if you can't raise enough you will be really hurting so maybe you should lower your cap like I wish I would've did that with my last company it's like and so it's it's

00:40:43 really like I love like that relationship of like of sort of like coaching mentoring whatever you want to call it like that sort of value-add relationship I love that aspect of it and so the thought of being able to do that across 30 companies in the next five years is like it's so cool to me yeah and what's really cool is when you get the feedback that like it's working you guys are awesome like you're my favorite like thank you so much and you're just like and you're just you're just going at it every single day and

00:41:18 you're just hitting the pavement you're just you know and you're just growing growing the whole ecosystem right and so yeah day to day it's it's just a lot of blocking and tackling and I'm trying to get everything moving in the same direction yeah yeah yeah I like that you mentioned that how about kind of scaling yourself and that's I mean with even with startup 2.0 and doing these interviews like we can share some of these insights that these amazing entrepreneurs and investor have with other people and that

00:41:45 obviously helps others grow their business and you have a way more hands-on with obviously the companies you're working with with your companies than to so Hawk has a bunch of resources and everything there to help of any other resources people conferences books pockets anything else that you think you've kind of directed towards your startups or have suggested to the startups you you have their Hawk ventures mm-hmm I don't I'm not really like I'm so like deep in the kind of operations and like I don't there's not

00:42:17 really I'm trying to think there isn't really any like anything else yeah I can think of I mean sometimes I'll tell founders I'm like listen like you haven't started like buying Facebook Ads like just go like learn how to do it it's like all right they're like Facebook has every resource in the world for you to be like correct total money with me and so it's always kind of interesting when like founders you know have it maybe rolled up their sleeves and just like did it to get the data or whatever it is and so

00:42:49 you know I'll point people in that direction from like a resources perspective like I don't uh I don't know I mean I most of the founders that I'm talking to they are like executing running like 80 miles an hour every single day that like yeah to like stop and like recommend the podcast and like smell the roses like I mean I would I don't know like it's like it's hard right like I mean I always tell people they need to take time and they need to take care of themselves and stuff like that but well it's one of the same

00:43:19 students looking at the average they're so focused on triangular business like you mentioned of course that's the whole point of it but it's um those things where you wonder which things we help them excel right that or which things are here that they're missing out on like even just you saying recommending just go look at this tutorial how to run this ad because it'll help you with your business you know there are things like that it seems like at least there it can be helpful is there anything else in

00:43:40 terms of entrepreneurs founders that you'd mentioned we haven't talked about that you suggest to them or anything else you'd kind of like to talk about with that yeah I mean it's really interesting like I always talk about how I invest in growing companies not guarding them like I have been a founder so many times where you're building a company you're getting two revenue you're acquiring customers it's like it's like it's your job to get to this place yeah where I just can't say no to investing and I can say that because

00:44:11 I've like literally been in that position and I'm like why won't you invest like come on like well it just doesn't fit our thesis and I'm like so wise come on like what are you talking about so it's like the entrepreneurs I think forget that like the guys on the other side and gals on the other side they're entrepreneurs yeah and it's a really weird thing to think about but it's like it's so true and actually when I was when I was a founder and raising money and people would talk about how pvcs are entrepreneurs - I was like I

00:44:39 don't really get it you know but now obviously it's much and now I understand but I think you know it's like the founders they got to give you a reason to to like to say yet like what was it like you have to create this like momentum where I took oh my gosh I can't not invest like and if you can't create that like I mean good luck like maybe you'll find somebody who really loves the space that you're in and will invest and like that's what you need in the early stages but yeah I just tell people

00:45:14 like never stop putting out good news and whenever I see founders are oh I don't I don't want to share this I'm like all right good luck because this is not my style like yeah I mean I understand like I mean we've invested in two companies that are sort of stealthy and like not quite launched or not quite like public and and you know they're making money and they're doing that they're doing great and like I understand why some companies choose to to do that but for most companies it's like growth solves all problems the

00:45:47 more people that know about you the better like just continue to grow don't worry about the competition just execute like find customers I mean know your competition obviously but like don't be so like neurotically obsessed with like oh people find out about what I do it's like I want them to that's actually a good thing you know and so we invite companies to the hawk cage which is the hawk adventure club sort of presentation space for companies to come and pitch Hawk and Hawk media and Hawk ventures

00:46:21 and so I get two very different founders I had the founder that's like yes I want to be on video and do a Shark Tank kind of thing like I love it and then another founder that's like oh like yeah I don't really I don't really want to do that and you're like okay like that's fine like if that's your if that's how you feel about it like that's totally cool like you just like you won't get the opportunity don't be able to that yeah you know and so it's like it's just that philosophy of like how do we share how

00:46:46 do we grow how do we do more how do we get the word out there like that's just our style right obviously we're not investing in military hardware so it's like cool right we can think that way right so yeah I think you know my my advice to startups is like just just do everything you can to grow find the right people give me give me reasons to have to invest and never stop putting out good news yeah drew what's the easiest way for people to get in contact with you just drew at hawk with an e hawkers and eve mediacom that's the

00:47:22 easiest way I said LinkedIn once on stage actually at the and that was such a mistake I was like no actually not the best man the reason why I said that because I wanted to be able to get it get a sense of who was on who they are yeah but then I was like this isn't manageable like this is askew much like this isn't helpful like I don't work inside of LinkedIn I'm working on my email but yeah yeah 500 new requests for this is gonna be an issue I think drew thank you so much for coming thanks for

00:47:53 having me appreciate it thanks for checking out star up 2.0 from spark XYZ if you want to learn more about startups and investing and check us out join the ecosystem at spark XYZ dot IO