00:00:01 [Music] moving the needle on founder failure one conversation at a time I'm your host Lukas polls and welcome to startup to point out by spark XYZ join us each week as we give you access to some of the top investors and entrepreneurs around the country I think there's no better place in the country to be investing than Los Angeles what is the problem that you're solving and for who like what is that specific pain point sometimes when a company is not listening to its customers and just thinks it knows better than it customers

00:00:34 has a really really hard time finding product market fit I want to see somebody that that isn't gonna stop you know this person you just feel like they're gonna they're gonna they're gonna make it work a big heartfelt thank you to Breck's who without their support this show would not be possible we've seen firsthand the difficulties accessing basic corporate credit without providing a security deposit or personal guarantee early on as companies grow managing expenses has become more difficult and time-consuming which is

00:01:09 why we've partnered with Breck's to offer a corporate credit card that is not personally guaranteed offers higher credit limits provides Auto reconciliation and integrates with ERPs using receipt capture Breck's is the credit card of a start ecosystem and we highly encourage you to check them out thanks for coming on thanks for having me awesome and so we really like to start as want to find out a little bit more about firm you guys do kind of model that kind of stuff sure so fusional a it's an accelerator

00:01:40 program based here in Santa Monica we're a small shop it's me and my co-founder a guy who's typically based in Tel Aviv and spending significant time here in California we invest in Israeli led startups in we launched a firm three years ago this September it's exactly three years since our first investment and over the course of the last three years we've done 43 deals hopefully by this September we'll actually hit the 50 all precede investments initially our check size was was more modest 20 50 K

00:02:22 in and now we're glad in the last year that we're able to cut larger checks and each company that participate in in our accelerated program gets one hundred and ten thousand dollars plus the program itself which is two three months intense mentorship program that you know very similar to programs that you know locally from TechStars and 500 startups and YC it's structured they DS to help the founders create a network with local executives investors and people that could help them scale the business in

00:03:03 the u.s. awesome so you're helping a lot of a lot of the Israeli startups you're helping them kind of break into the US market as well right yeah that's that's the vision the vision has really helped connect between the ecosystem in Israel which is I think after the u.s. per capita one of the most thriving ecosystems in the world for innovation and kind of like help those companies set up a shop Israel as a small country nine million people so LA County is larger in most Israeli startups think globally from day one so think about how

00:03:45 to engage with us clients in part and a big part of the program is helping them create a network more on the business side of things and kind of like how to engage clients create an advisory board and position the company to be able to raise institutional round from US investors awesome so obviously kovat is one of the big things that up mine for a lot founders especially right now so I'm curious to know from an investor standpoint like how how is the transition been because of accelerators are traditionally very hands-on

00:04:27 in person right like high tech oriented oh this this situation uh caught us in the midst of the batch that we had here in Santa Monica so we ate we had seven companies arriving here late February as part of the program we also rent for the founders housing here for two month and they worked from our offices and most of the meetings is about establishing that personal relationship with local individuals and we had to move everything to you to zoom one thing I think we were successful to moving everything to zoom because investors and

00:05:09 entrepreneurs everybody were in the same boat and we're happy to take a call in this weird times everybody you know working from home so they've done that but I think the real struggle is to actually create a significant business traction during this time cell especially if you're a b2b business it's hard because a lot of companies just were playing defense or an hauled in and not really as excited working together with the company from across the ocean and like spending that extra budget on an startup and I think all startups face

00:05:51 the same struggle right now we're working also with startups that are in the direct-to-consumer and space as well so for those startups was actually an opportunity but about 2/3 of our portfolio is b2b in some of our alumni of course facing uh you know challenges and in a revenue that they've expected to receive this year they had to adjust for the gaming companies we work with that has been an opportunity for sure and and and and again they're active consumer so it's it's case-by-case it's it's different for each of our portfolio

00:06:38 companies but for us as an accelerator even trying to plan for the next batch though we're typically doing a batch in March and in September just trying to understand how how things will will work this fall and if we will do something hybrid kind of like virtual air in person or actually will go for full virtual and only when things will open up like bring the guys here those are the things we're still debating you know not understandable I mean finding out what the world is gonna be like in September is a magic 8-ball

00:07:18 right now trying to figure it out so yeah it's about having a vaccine in the market or not but even you know the little stuff like trade shows and the fact that many of the conference's were just canceled until the end of the year all of them oh this is a real significant challenge and nobody really cracked we spoke about it and stuff for a colleague how would you do networking professionally in in using just zoom it's not it's not a solution or other forms nobody really cracked that and maybe it's a company to invest in a

00:07:54 finite company I will absolutely put a capital planning awesome cool well so let's walk through a little bit more about the folio companies you have invested in that kind of when you look for going forward so walk me through and you you walk through a little bit about your portfolio some of the b2b some of the being direct consumer so one through kind of your investment pieces like what are you typically looking for when you're looking at applications so the shorter answer that we're looking for a

00:08:26 solid team our like precondition for like we'll take it we'll take a call and we'll meet pretty much any founder to reach out to us the fill out our application for Mon on on our website pretty standard and we've actually announced just two weeks ago we're gonna do all the process of interviewing companies in three weeks and have transparent for the founders that apply and in three weeks you'll get a note even before if we're moving forward for a term sheet or we're gonna table the conversation and happy to

00:09:15 speak maybe in six month or like later in the year that's in terms of the process but you have you've asked about what we're looking for so it's a solid team typically two or more members of the founding team that are fully committed to the venture one of the founding team members have to have should have technical capabilities or a full-time CTO I think it's it's important to us to have that tech lead in in the team and if Roo and we've done deals both b2b and b2c I think in Israel we see more b2b in terms of in terms of

00:10:04 deals I think it's also because it's really so far away from the target market here but in recent years we see more b2c especially in the in the gaming space if it's a b2b company we want to have them already build something it's great if they already have clients and some and we've made investments in companies already have cards but if they don't have paying clients we wanna we want them to be in a stage in which we call them we call it something to show like they've built something and they can start implementation with local

00:10:38 clients here and if it's b2c businesses like a gaming company or an eSports platform we want them to be able to launch the product during the program so if they're coming to us and they're saying guys would build something and we're able to launch this director consumer app game product in September so let's do it or even better if they have some first tests and we can look at it alpha so that's in terms of you know pride but we come very early most of the companies we could be even first check-in in many of the deals in

00:11:18 others will join well like will participate or will come just just after friends and family may be a small institutional round up to a million dollars something like that awesome so I want to jump back so that one of the things to you it said earlier so your your new process is that and this is not typical for accelerators because accelerators usually have like a three-month process or application so why did you decide I need to narrow it down to three weeks or under and then wouldn't has been a response so far from

00:11:55 some of those others so that was typically what we would have done in previous times we would have had a longer process of two three months of accepting applications with deadlines and then kind of like towards the end of the summer if we're starting in in September we would have sent a bulk of term sheets and start negotiating deals yeah we we now started to do that on on a rowing basis in kind of like once you file an application we'll review it and three weeks later you'll get an answer in and the idea was to be as founder

00:12:39 friendly as possible right now because a lot of firms or a lot of investors that out there and saying that they're open to business when in fact they are open and in and they're looking at deals but there'll be much more cautious right now and some of them really are excited about meeting meeting new founders but I don't think we'll deploy cash or checks until you four or even q1 of 2021 in new deals because they're just like waiting to see what's gonna be the situation so and we've been inspired by also

00:13:20 firms that have done it here in the u.s. in effects have done a similar process for seed investments our own LP go ahead ventures in the Bay Area also running quick process of like three weeks and kind of like being transparent with the founders in so far just in two weeks we've got over 100 applicants which is great now so so in a way we're actually thinking it's gonna be even more effective to ask to work on a rolling basis and we're also doing everything remotely and over zoom and created a back office to automate our emails then

00:14:04 in scheduling meetings so we're trying to become more efficient previously we hosted very long in person screening days in offices in Israel no and we just think let's try to be smarter also us as a as a VC as the fun let's try to be more agile work quickly earth and maybe after this test roll will do that moving forward nice awesome exciting not something easy to do applications in time nice work honestly awesome so as you're going through the process I'm sure that you end up running into like

00:14:51 none ever one out of the hundred people that are lighter going to make it so these two kind of seven eight checks in the next two months cool so from our perspective so walk me through a little bit about that process so what are maybe similar bread slices that you end up seeing that founders are making mistakes like whoa what is something that you automatically see like oh like I'm not this is not a deal for me so I think one red red flag is commitment of the founding team if you in the conversation really

00:15:34 is that let's say he's speaking with the CEO and and and that person tells you that the CTO is not fully committed to the venture or is already working in another job so it's hard it's hard for us because if you don't have a fully committed team and you're all into that it's already very difficult to build a startup company so it's very important to us to see the two three first employees founders fully committed to the venture so that's that's one thing another thing is to see a team that has worked on the product for let's say six

00:16:20 months or a year and still didn't engage any clients we really think that you need to engage with the clients as fast as possible and many times Israeli founders maybe also us found us they're in love with their product and and there's a moment you need to engage with glad-handing sooner than later and we think the business should drive where the product works and goes and that's a common mistake it's not a big no-no it's not a red flag because we meet founders like that all the time but we wanted to

00:17:03 be able to articulate the business need of of the venture and especially if they're coming from Israel they need to have they need to have an ability to tell you how they see the US market competitors or or a little or just like think through how they're gonna engage clients and even if and if they spoke or made their market research it's great but when an entrepreneur might tell you in a conversation that he or she didn't make those phone calls or emails to prospect to prospect clients in the US

00:17:47 maybe just spoke with their family and friends or people close to them it's a red flag because you're you want to have founders to invest in that can think globally and think big and those are the founders that will be able to raise capital and move and grow their businesses here I think something that is unique about our motto is that we really believe that in order to big a big successful company you need to have presence in the US so what we really part of the conversation is having those founders think about relocation to the

00:18:24 US even one team member typically there are dissenters phase in Israel but they need to be open-minded to the fact that they're going to spend significant time by themselves sometimes many times with the family also when the company progress and and that's uh but that's big big part of that entrepreneurial journey yeah I never sign so let's dive back some of the year that said that the commitment of the actual founders so there's only probably this second time recently I've heard something like that

00:19:05 and something that the you have any specific processes for seeing their actual clip commitment rather than just being actual full-time to eventually do you have any other techniques and all I give you example so someone else that we've had on the show recently what they end up doing is actually they'll walk through their specific resume and they'll see how long they've stayed to the fish comps to see how long they think that they'd actually end up staying at the venture that someone that's been jumping around every six

00:19:39 months so like this is probably not worth it because they're not going to be here in six months so are there any specific techniques that you look at for trying to determine how committed honey or you're talking about that like something we started implementing just in the last batch so I wouldn't say we've done it ever since we we've started but we started collecting data on the background of the founding team members and as part of the per the process in between the diligence calls were doing

00:20:13 were sending them and other deep dive questionnaires for each member of the founding team members kind of like also going through you know the resume and as well as also know universities but also military service and also how many if they've been involved in other companies before as founding team members in startups so we're collecting that data um it's uh it's still not in you know in a capacity that were making decision just off that data but hopefully as we grow and we'll collect data now fifty

00:21:01 portfolio companies or and it's gonna grow to a hundred portfolio companies and then we'll have some success stories we could look back into that so those are those are the things that we're trying to build the infrastructure for them right now in terms of founders data and jumping out on a call not just fake not just speak with the CEO but also jumping on a call with the CTO addressing those tend to tell you a different story than the seals so you'll find some interesting stuff with CEOs I'm not gonna get it is we had you know

00:21:45 we had even one funny conversation there was a year and a half ago now we spoke with the CEO and then we jumped on a call with the CTO and we've heard lack of commitment from the CTO like the CTO was speaking about the CEO and telling us that he is probably looking for another job and that was that's an extreme thing that happened in our diligence process but that's think that was was really red red flag but typically you know you want to get you wanna you have the feeling from other team members that's extreme and a

00:22:23 funny story but but but just like hearing from the de sitio whether they think whether the product is really is it's never ready but kind of like understand how they how they see things yeah understandable hey science they mentioned I always find interesting is and typically honestly I end up seeing it more with all engineering teams rather than either non-homogeneous teams or like like a true CEO CTO now getting the product out into market it is something that we typically run into it's like look it doesn't matter if it's

00:23:01 crap like it needs to get out because if you you have no idea what what is actually gonna happen until a customer actually puts it in their hands and if it's exciting and there are just additional features that you need to build like great like that's exciting like you have some type of traction to be able to show and you can fix the solution appropriate but yeah a lot of time you run into people and knowing oh yeah I've been working on this for a year I haven't had anyone and tested you're like oh do you know what you're

00:23:29 building like do are you actually building the right thing that customers specifically want so I think it's a there's a great that's a great point so fir let's talk about like early stage for founders so maybe some of the founders that are actually in your actual cohort so maybe early in the cohort maybe early after like what are what are some of the mistakes that you see end up the end up happening for early-stage founders my mistakes that they end up making that are generally avoidable but maybe lack of knowledge or

00:24:06 just true desire or like discipline within it to make sure that something went differently like what are some mistakes that you see early on you know where as an accelerator in my perspective it's all about building long sustainable relationships with people and and I think just looking at the founders that were more successful in from our portfolio that those were the founders that were persistent and also you saw that they they were able to articulate to their network over the course of time their status and Sharon

00:24:58 get feedback from from from their peers and um you can do that by sending a monthly or bimonthly or quarterly email updates but also by by maintaining those relationships with people that they've met in the program and a mistake that I think many founders or some founders do is that they've met somebody in and and they should and they didn't follow up they didn't follow up quickly and they didn't put an emphasis on keeping people in the loop because it's a long journey and once you know kept people in the

00:25:46 loop when you're have a good momentum it's great everybody want to be part of that right now things will go in different directions and then you want to have people that have been with you and not just reach out back to somebody that you've met a year ago and they didn't hear back from you so I think that's something that just being aware of that and that's a big thing that we're trying to push our founders in the accelerator kind of like breach be transparent and maintain this network of relationships with people it's hard to

00:26:18 write those updates you know it's important it's important and I think it makes a big difference also when you're gonna go to ask for money down the road and for many right now it's not a good time to raise money as I mentioned before if a year from now you're gonna go and raise money you wanna make people aware of your progress even if it's small little things you've done so that's a big check away I think from for portfolio and I think a mistake that I see very common is not is not keeping people in the loop in any stage I think

00:26:58 no personal relationships mean a lot is in the same way we do business with people that we believe in I think other you know seed investors and even clients they want to do business with people that they trust and in creating that trust is a big challenge and he needs it needs some get it discipline to to do that yeah hungry so agree all the time it's the small things that mean the world for for our house what I think is we're just coming back to the beginning part everyone is you know when you talk

00:27:44 about the the other everyone in the ecosystem right now but it's it's so interesting because everyone says that they're writing checks but like not amend a lot of people are actually going out of writing checks like which I know some investors are actually open about it and I've heard in different webinars right now investors even from big funds like Bessemer and others that are saying guys were in the next quarter we're probably gonna write checks but it's gonna be 400 companies there because we

00:28:18 want to help kind of like protect our investment and have them have those companies go through 2020 2021 and and get to that point and I get that and I think it's there's a lot of uncertainty the public markets are one thing but where you go but when you go here even in like Santa Monica read a bikini although things should have been opened up you know like allowed to open up they're not open up here so I think California takes longer than I expected to open up and when this hit us and in March we thought

00:29:02 hey maybe we'll do a road show in the Bay Area and late April or May so I'm not sure that's gonna happen this September and so I understand why investors are not as active we look at that as an opportunity and I think there are investors out there that have recently raised money and that will be active right now not true the valuations will be as attractive as they used to be yeah but I think my advice for founders right now that have to raise or that get an offer that is fair I'm not saying like predatory offers but I can fail

00:29:43 offer from a VC take it take the money and run yeah because you know you don't know like and you want to build things now you want to get to traction so if you have even like on solid terms or a safe know that it can race from friends and family around you so you could hit the business milestones and get to 2021 do it but don't spend a lot of time right now when trying to raise money I'm not sure it's a smart you know it's a smart move if you're an early-stage founder right now yeah I agree yeah it's several interesting times I'm

00:30:23 bad for the ecosystem though 40 I'm going to be like look you actually have to have a business model that works you can't just take a bunch of capital and grow and then figure it out later it might be a decent resetting for four perfectly share that all of the successful companies we see these days were founded in times of uncertainty and during the last know the last recession but it's also true so yeah but but what's what's what's scary is that it could be a year process but he could be also two three years of a long process

00:31:04 and in the meanwhile maybe technology here is a solution and if you have the capital you can build things or you have the time and the ability to build something new but a lot of businesses will will get foreclosed this year no I have the family that were members that are worried the hospitality businesses in the business and that pretty much shut down for for the year and yet millions of people are gonna lose their jobs now the coming month so it's like it's it's it scary also in the grand scheme

00:31:42 of things and sad but hopefully it's a you know if you look at long long term it's an opportunity to build something new if you can do that yeah I think you have to look at silver linings when stuff like this on the phone illegitimate so let's let's jump back to team so we put a lot of importance on team especially in early-stage ventures because we're betting on them from the standpoint of like the idea that you show me at a very early stage there's there's no way it's gonna be the same thing in like four or five years

00:32:19 everything always changes weather slightly reliant so we've been on founders specifically to be able to see those changes through so because team is so important like what are some of the issues that you end up seeing with co-founders and just in general around it especially at the early stage so the truth is is that I think no companies don't get up in the early stage and we have few companies that are in the last three years had to close shut down the operation it's typically because of founding team issues

00:33:02 it's not about product market fit typically or a bad idea no it could be part of the execution sure but but things go south and the decision to end a business typically because founders got into a point that they don't see eye to eye it wasn't maybe a good fit and you know and I think a way to avoid that is kind of align expectations early on yeah in many and and I'm not saying that you can plan two years in advance but you should have in place a napkin agreement or one-page agreement founders agreement

00:33:51 is very important and teams that didn't have that or that it was not clear the who's this really the CEO and who's really the CTO or the or the chief product and there's like even in small to three teams that know there's eventually one decision makers on the business stuff and one decision maker on that when things are unclear in terms of roles it's not healthy for for the business you set up you told me something I recently saw a company that you know there are three team members and I saw on the deck it was choose

00:34:36 co-ceos and I saw that and I said no guys it's uh that's a big no-no yeah because you know you can have two co-ceos when you're running a fortune ten four guys so but sometimes it's not as clear on the deck but you understand that there's need to be like clear clear role definition here yeah and a line of expectation is also personally I think something that I asked and that's part of our application these guys how much no personal runway do you have no and I think being open about that especially

00:35:31 when founding team members might have family significant other no other people to feed their are building a business in a way building a startup many times I think about that it's a privilege you know that you'd be able to be an independent and build something like that in in founding team members need to acknowledge the needs and I'm not saying you cannot do that of course we have we have a family we have a CEO a female entrepreneur that moved here with three children to Los Angeles and raised the

00:36:06 Sidra and it's a tough relocation here and we have other founders that came by themselves to to California so it's never easy but but the other team members should be supportive of that in and understand the different needs in and I think having those conversation about commitment and personal runway between the founding team members is important and also having plan B in case in six months hey you want to continue doing that and I'm gonna continue to do something else know if there are mechanisms to do that

00:36:47 your in terms of cliff investing and and you can do that in a fair way and not crushing the the company in terms of that equity and stuff like that so those are things that worth while thinking of and I know you've been involved with founders initiative at USC so I don't know maybe you can share like know there's there's a lot of data about that and I think founders agreement we're having that line of expectation is important I don't know what's your take up oh no honestly I never said I don't think that it I don't think enough

00:37:23 investors play and that there enough business on the on the family team and there many dynamics that are associated with it roles is one of the biggest things and it's something that I you that I always dive into with them specifically like especially when we're doing like procedures around like okay who is the CEO can you fire the CTO it's one of my favorite questions like is that is that something that's plausible have you set up the hierarchy enough like is this has this actually been done my other favorite questions is the how

00:37:59 did you split likely because that's where a lot of time you end up running into a lot of contentious discussions in that maybe the engineer is doing a lot of working beginning and then business person is gonna be doing a lot of work in kind of the second quarter going forward but there becomes a lot of disparities on what people value and what they think that they're actually worth and how you actually decided like did you did you have that tough conversation around around equity did you actually have a conversation about

00:38:32 it or did you just split 50-50 like this is one of the things that I hate the most was like we split it 50/50 it's like okay we're communicating to me is that you guys did not have a conversation about this and instead of having that tough one now and getting it out of the way you're gonna run into this going forward in six months a year I don't know when but there's a ticking time bomb sitting in your startup that you don't you haven't yet dealt with so that's another one of my my big ones but

00:39:03 our roles and roles in hierarchy are very very important because it's it's in the beginning when you're first starting out like it's very flat and making it main that transition to hierarchy is if you haven't set out the right guidelines and expectations in the beginning like it becomes very difficult to to be able to do that because other people have made assumptions that maybe you haven't so no hundred percent agree and you need to be conscious that maybe down the road you've started two people and a team and

00:39:38 then down the road you you you you understand that you need a third person or fourth person to compliment what you're missing and I'm in favor of of doing you to the strategic way and allocate to that extra co-founder equity yeah and do that in a smart way but don't be afraid of having that conversation and also acknowledge that sometimes something is missing in the core team and you want to bring an extra co-founder even if it's a year later no and and sometimes those are hard conversations to have not sure I really

00:40:15 like your question about two personal runway no it's hard to ask that but I have to you have to ask that like what's know it's good how long until you're gonna look for another job yeah it must be tough getting like real answers from them on that one like now I'm committed 100% forever and about 50 at least 30% less it's like revenue what's your projection for this year you take the answer / - yeah being optimistic there we go okay now we need to be optimistic in our line of business that's for sure it's very true I do love

00:41:06 looking at projections and being like the only thing I can tell you about this projection is that I know it's wrong I want you to look be realistic and I want you to be achieved at it I don't want actually sometimes Israeli founders might put very conservative they're like hard on themselves and they're putting very conservative assessments and that's maybe something a bit different than maybe American founders all right no chewy kind of afraid guys you need you you need other projections here not

00:41:44 everybody but sometimes I see that and it's also not healthy oh yeah honestly because if it's not it's not the same in the market if I'm looking at they're looking at ridiculous projections all the time when I see one it's not I'm like wait hold on like what's going on here I'm confused but the truth is in our application process we don't ask for a business plan no that's good yeah no we'd like something look at a spreadsheet but it's not a mandatory do you have you know we don't those 30 30 page you know you can read

00:42:20 it's a nice fiction but it's no solid deck 10 slides should do the work yeah I agree I understand I don't think I've ever asked for financials on the hand on that standpoint predictions awesome cool so let's so we are in weird times but what are some of the startups that are getting you excited like right now like is it is it your DC is your gaming companies like what what kind of space are you like more interested in right now so I think there's an opportunity right now of course anything and everything

00:43:00 remote is as an opportunity we've invested in a in a few ventures in the HR future of work space in terms of recruitment and how to automate and that process and make it make it better for companies I think that's exciting we're investing in the company that is all about productivity of tools in time for organizations and I think that that is huge in terms of wellness so we're not gonna do like medical device were it's to capital intensive for us but we think there's an opportunity for disruption in

00:43:48 the wellness in healthcare space that is changing and there's gonna be more investment in that so we've done deals in wellness for senior citizens we've done deals for mental health collaboration we're looking at deals that kind of like telehealth healthcare IT every cent director consumer app we've invested in is called giant leap it's about targeting assessment for its targeting parents and helps parents with a game a child development tool to help them assess their children aged three to eight and

00:44:40 kind of like understand their their brain in in what things they could do we know that you bill to help their kids become better in what they're doing so those are things that he can do from home we have an e-learning company that we're excited about so a lot of them you know the old-school industries know are changing you do a lot of work from home so those are the things that we're looking at yeah and of course the gaming company is always great to see that people at home so they have more time to

00:45:19 to play and we've done both deals in Mobile kinda like casual games but one of our latest investments as a company that does like meet core strategy game and they're launching their multiplayer version right now so we're betting for them to be the next epic games we're looking looking at that and I think it'll a is definitely one of the best markets in the world to launch b2c direct-to-consumer app product service but even the ecosystem me Rhonda another investment we've done it's a customer service automation sounds very

00:46:09 you know something that you should have and kind of like a plug-in but it's not it's a unless you're a big company today and then you can have that dedicated customer automation team having that for business that is growing or for business that just had to move online it's difficult in companies that provide that set of services in terms of customer support cloud services as those are great solutions for that so it's all over this the space here the things that we're interested in eventually I'll go back to the beginning

00:46:50 we're looking for a strong dedicated team that is looking to build something bigger and they need to educate us they need to tell me yeah this is an opportunity that gonna change and things in five years people will need what we're building right now and in ten years it's gonna be something big so we don't have the ideas were just investors but we're you know we're we're we we think we can identify good people and and people that we can maybe be helpful from our network so one founders to reach out to me with crazy ideas but

00:47:27 that have done their research and kind of like educate me on on an angle on an industry that that I didn't hear about my awesome cool well yeah where can where can people find you here at fusion labs dot away website usually have da de la just like we have the best thing if your founders just fill out the application form and you'll get a quick answer from us in 72 hours in terms of maybe scheduling a first call or if maybe it's relevant or not relevant but feel free to reach out and we're trying

00:48:09 not to leave any founder without an answer awesome well appreciate you taking the time to would come on the show and have a new Tim thank you [Music]