00:00:01 [Music] moving the needle on founder failure one conversation at a time I'm your host Lukas polls and welcome to startup to point out by spark XYZ join us each week as we give you access to some of the top investors and entrepreneurs around the country don't we think through and overcome some of the challenges I think there's no better place in the country to be investing than Los Angeles what is the problem that you're solving and for who like what is that specific pain point sometimes when a company is not

00:00:32 listening to his customers and just thinks it knows better than their customers has a really really hard time finding product market fit I want to see somebody that that isn't gonna stop you know this person you just feel like they're gonna they're gonna they're gonna make it work Len welcome to the show hey it's great to be here because thanks for inviting me no really appreciate you coming on and typically where we like to start is we'd like to hear a little bit about your background what you do with a pretty

00:01:05 accelerator and then we'll dive into some startup topics later down the line so I love for you to kick us off all right thank you again thank you for letting me be here my background in this space is is deep and wide but comes from a very different place so I started my career working for the Boy Scouts of America back in the mid 80s I'm an Eagle Scout so so am I so and that's why we're here because I think Eagle the people who've attained that reg happen to know how to get things done let's love to leave in fact

00:01:38 but I spent 30 years in the nonprofit industry and back in 2007 I was attending the Los Angeles Venture Association as a member to try and meet entrepreneurs and people who could mentor kids and high school and junior high school programs and also to find people who could give money to the organization the board liked me and they never had executive leadership they asked me to come and join them in 2007 as their first full-time executive director which I did and I accepted that thinking I'd do that for a couple years

00:02:11 and then kind of move on to something different 12 years later about 2000 companies that I've seen and looked at and screened and worked with and having a membership in lava and having workshops and panel discussions and meeting investors and going to conferences and watching how people have traversed this this ecosystem the startup ecosystem and this venture capital angel Capital ecosystem has been very eye-opening it's been very fulfilling and I'm happy to be in it and then this past fall I get a call from

00:02:48 Stubbs Alta to mark Alize that runs the pre seller ater program in Santa Monica and I was offered the position of Managing Director which I readily accepted thank you it was an easy decision for a couple of reasons a 12 years in an organization is a lifetime and I was ready for a move that's number one and and I wasn't looking so I I can say that this caught me by surprise number two Stubbs has been a supporter of the lava since I was there Scot Alderton was on the board and so in our office with them for two years now when

00:03:26 I first started so there were known quantity to me and I've liked all the people I know what they are capable of doing and when they started the pre celebrator seven years ago I was there no I was there from the beginning when Heidi kind of thought took the leadership role there and helped her I was a mentor I did workshops I've met pretty much every single portfolio company that's come through there so again stepping into the role for me was very easy it was seamless and I'm really excited because now I get to help very

00:03:58 specific companies and on board very specific companies that can take advantage of what the pre celebrator offers and hopefully find a path to success in this very difficult ecosystem yeah awesome no super exciting so let's dive a little bit into the actual pretty accelerator so what type of company do you look for what what is kind of your offering how long are they there kind of a whole kind of field great that's pretty easy it's easy to say what we don't take so we don't take anything that's cannabis-related okay

00:04:32 oh that's just a law firm policy you don't touch that we don't take life science companies that have some type of diagnostic FDA regulation where they have trials or anything so nothing clinical biopharm is out but health tech life science tack those types of deliveries we'll look at we'll even look at some medical device if there's no FDA approval on it and then that's those are really the gun hardware is hard so we unless there's a software component to the hardware if it's an IOT type thing we will look at it and we've

00:05:10 accepted a couple of those companies but by and large we stay away from hardware but everything else has open what we specialize in or what I think I've seen a specialize in based on our portfolio companies e-commerce platforms marketplaces SAS those types of tech companies where they can where there's the opportunity for scaling very fast for revenues and for attraction yeah so let's talk about the actual process so what are some of the mistakes that the entrepreneurs end up making kind of either applying to the pre accelerator

00:05:59 or why wouldn't they get kind of a yes out of you what are some of the common red flags so I think a lack of a big problem a big enough problem whether it's not a total available market that's real yeah people come in with grandiose claims but when you start drilling down and looking at what what really are the solving do they have a solution have they done a good look at what's out there already in the competitive marketplace and I think those are some of the biggest challenges that I see with people coming

00:06:38 in so start with the problem and make sure that if you're gonna apply for venture capital that it's going to be a big enough problem to solve that will create an ROI on that investment you know at the extreme you know 25 200 X yeah now not everybody is gonna get there but all funds need to know that they're gonna have at least one of those in the fund lifetime you know what in order to make the fund work so that that's what I think we need to those are the red flags the things I particularly look for is I'm looking for teams or

00:07:15 founders that have some type of experience that they can show that they've been able to execute and accomplish something mm-hmm and come with data points on that don't just say well I've worked for and had this job you know come and say I worked for this organization when I came in we were at X and when I left we were y know and I was able to affect that change and grow the company a gross sales or hire the right people no I so if you can't show me that type of execution it's really difficult in

00:07:49 this competitive marketplace to take a chance on you yeah no I understand I agree with that okay so founders are going through the process we have talked about some of the stuff that you do look for what get you kind of over the line to actually writing a check like what is something like what what do you see in a company that's like ok like this is specifically what I'm looking for maybe besides that the team in the mark is there anything else in there that excites you well I think you get a understand from a

00:08:23 pre-sale rater standpoint we're looking at companies that typically are in pre MVP so it's really hard to measure traction it's really hard to measure any type of revenues because they're pre-revenue so you really have to go with you know do they have a big enough problem No do they have a solution that's unique and disruptive in order to make that problem go away and do they have the ability to sell it and I think most importantly do they have the ability to be coached and and take advice because

00:08:55 what we offer at the pre seller ATAR is a mentorship program that brings people like yourself and others to come in and help evaluate and and steer these companies to a solution that's going to work and so that may mean a pivot no and I'll give you an example we have a company in the pre celebrated right now came in and it was something to make splitting checks easy when you go to a restaurant and what he found out is in order to make that work he had to integrate with a third party software that everybody uses and that third party

00:09:30 software had no interest and and giving him an API and working with them yeah so we pivoted and now he's got a program that is helping restaurants manage their equipment nice and on a maintenance schedule and know what they have and and that's something that's needed in the industry because right now it's either done on a spreadsheet or it breaks and then you have to react and with margins being as high as they as well as little as they are in that industry you can't afford for machinery to break down so

00:09:59 you have to be on top of it so I think he's solving the solution I'm solving a problem that has a good solution that nobody else is doing you know and he was able to pivot and he's excited by it and he's finding some traction there so going back to your question what what gets me over the edge is that opportunity to work with somebody to refine their solution so what works to address that market awesome no it's very exciting in I don't think that we talked enough about excuse me about coachability and about likability

00:10:30 especially when we're looking at deals because I know for you I mean a company that's coming into the pre accelerator they're you're gonna be with them for the next call it three to seven years and a lot of time we don't take that into account of like look we're working in almost a short term marriage going forward so now it's a very good point to be able to bring out going back to going back to that too I think when I look at resumes because I asked to see the resumes and founders if I see a pattern that they've

00:11:03 only had a job for 18 months in the longest term yeah my first question out of the boxes what makes you think that you're gonna have the attention span to stay with this beyond 18 months yeah because your track record over the past five years has been seven eight jobs yeah how do you rectify that with the expectation that this is going to be a five to ten year program and how do you see yourself going forward they can't answer that mm-hmm gone you know I can't take that risk yeah no and I'll say I don't think that

00:11:36 enough venture capitalists look at like even a resume to even try to understand that specific piece and it's interesting because we focus so much on team a lot of time that we don't usually ask for resumes and so it's a it's outside the box I come out of this thing I come into this industry from the outside and I look at it I'm hiring people yeah you know that's how I have to look at it I'm looking to hire the best people who can execute it know it's for their own program but if we're gonna be an

00:12:08 investor in it I want to make sure that we have good people yeah no I understand agree okay so you you've seen a lot of companies in you hard time over the last called twelve thirteen years what are some of the mistakes or what are some of the common ones and maybe the not so common mistakes that founders we make very early on having poor assumptions assuming that they're gonna raise money yeah having timelines that are unrealistic I'm gonna raise you know five million dollars in the next year and I'm

00:12:42 starting now and it's my first race I think founders that have a reluctance to put their own capital a or are reluctant to go and raise the friends and family around mm-hmm they're not going to survive no they need skin in the game they need people to hold them accountable that they're close to yeah III think once they get money spending it through in a way that's not frugal yeah spending it extravagantly hiring the wrong people hiring the executive teams you follow they're high of worker bees yeah you know food you don't go out and

00:13:22 hire a VP of Sales if you have nobody selling it doesn't make any sense but you see it all the time no so they're they're spending their money in a way that doesn't make sense and then aligning themselves with strategics and whining and finding the people that have been in this industry if they're if it's in an industry that they're not as familiar with making sure that they beefed up their advisory board with people that can advise them on that industry but I also think a red flag as if someone's trying to solve a problem

00:14:01 in an industry that they're not familiar with yeah now it's very true um actually going back to the advisory boards how much stock do you actually put into an advisory board when you're looking at a pitch deck as much stock as if when I look at it so I'll pick one of the advisors and then I'll go to that LinkedIn page a bad advisor and see if they list that company that's good to see if they actually align themselves so if they're aligning themselves with it that that's a good cue yeah if they make

00:14:31 no mention of it and it just seems too far away then I'm so spent because a lot of times people will beef up their decks with a lot of nonsense yeah and and I think it's okay to call a reference and say hey would you mind if I called Lucas who I see is on her advisory board and see what he says yeah about what you're doing and why he's involved which really live in the wild wild west way and that's part of the diligence problem yes and I think you're going to be able to to see through what people what people

00:15:04 put down as real and what's aspirational yeah it's not that people are buying intentionally I think people have all good intention but there's they they position themselves of aspiration no and well that's all well and good it's not real yeah I think that some of the time they'll even when they do that dawned of falling into the trap of thinking that this person is 100% dialed in and then when they actually maybe they get that fundraising that get to that next stage where they actually need the help and

00:15:36 they're not there things will end up going awry because they made those assumptions it unravels yeah yeah that's not the other thing I see is not having the right partner and co-founder where that becomes an issue yeah it's a nice segue into the next question so what what team issues do you typically end up saying with the founders I've seen everything from things that work brilliantly to teams that don't work so well and a good example would be a founding team of an even number on a board okay let's say four yeah and what

00:16:16 happens if you have a two to split yeah how do you rectify that one part of the team wants to go in one direction the other team part of the team wants to go in another direction and they can't talk to each other that blows up the company yeah it just goes away so I think making sure you have the right people that you've done the diligence on them that you understand what everybody is going to do and you have a way to get out of it if someone's not performing yeah I think that's interesting I think one of

00:16:46 my favorite questions actually to ask the CEO when I'm doing due diligence is like okay say you actually end up raising this round the co-founder is and isn't performing at that next stage that you need them to perform like can you actually fire them and a lot of the time it's very rare that I'll run into someone that has actually had the conversation of like yeah we've had this they're willing to take nurse take a step back or fall into a different roles they don't end up meeting it but it's very I mean it's very rare to have

00:17:16 someone that has had that kind of tough conversation very early on to see what those next stages end up being because you're right they don't hundred-percent blow up the company that's right well and I've seen it happen time and time again yeah the other thing on team is if you have a technical co-founder and we see this a lot out of tech transfer coming out of the universities where you have a prosecutor or some type of investigator faculty member in the lab who comes up with a brilliant solution

00:17:46 to a big problem and they want to commercialize it and they have a big ego and they think that they can be the CEO and they have no business acumen they'd have never run a business they've never hired anybody and I don't know how to read a balance sheet that becomes a big issue because no matter how good that product and service is if if they can't release it to someone who can help them raise the money and tell the story it's never gonna go anywhere and a lot of good technology you get technologies get left on the shelf

00:18:18 because of that issue yeah that's interesting I mean it's team homogeny and a lot of times you will end up seeing that I mean you hear the stories more around like oh it seems all business students that are not doing it that don't have a technical co-founder but just as often I see teams of all engineers that are like oh we're all here it's like okay so who can sell on this team like who can actually cause the least dirty yeah yeah I see that and you know so one of the challenges in our ecosystem here in Southern California in

00:18:58 Los Angeles specifically is having that bench of serial entrepreneurs that can commercialize and and help new companies get off the ground yeah and we just don't have the amount of people in that category that need to build our ecosystem quickly because we leave a lot of stuff on the table because we don't have the right team leadership yeah and if you compare us to say the Bay Area which is a benchmark area they have so many serial entrepreneurs that have gone through the lifecycle of so many different types of companies in so

00:19:34 many different industries that it's easy to find people yeah and we just don't have that stable of people yeah that's true I've actually heard about some of the some of the larger funds here in LA that have developed venture studios alongside their actual fund for developing the ideas they're having very tough time finding the talent plugging those companies so they can release them into the wild basically and so noticed it's true I think it's a challenge with a lot of the earlier ecosystems li

00:20:07 included I'd be curious to know if people in New York went into something similar but yeah I am excited about kind of where la is going mean even like I'm originally from LA and I never like the first time someone told me Silicon be chose it what are you even talking about I remember when that happened it was like 2008 and someone called the silicon and I forget who it was and there was a lot of push back governmental entities didn't like it no the city of Malibu didn't like it the city of Santa Monica

00:20:43 didn't like it because it was taken away from their brand and it has grown faster than you know people expected it to and it's taken on its own life but it's really hard to talk about silicon beach and then talk about Pasadena yeah because the 30 miles from the beach and it doesn't make any sense so they don't identify with it so as a Southern California region or a Los Angeles region we just have to realize you know where we are and what our assets are and our assets in this ecosystem agree well

00:21:16 we have more research institutions than any other sector region in the country now we produce the most number of engineers in the world yeah which is to me which is not like USC alone and then graduates like sick like 60,000 or something ridiculous but yeah it's so there's not a lot of there's not no shortage of engineering talent yeah it's here now a lot of it goes away probably half of those engineers are from foreign countries so they're going back to their country domain domicile however there's

00:21:54 still a lot of good people here and there's a lot of good tang heartfelt thank you to Breck's who without their support this show would not be possible we've seen firsthand the difficulties accessing basic corporate credit without providing a security deposit or personal guarantee early on as companies grow managing expenses has become more difficult and time-consuming which is why we've partnered with Breck's to offer a corporate credit card that is not personally guaranteed offers higher credit limits provides Auto

00:22:21 reconciliation and integrates with ERPs using receipt capture Breck's is the credit card of a start ecosystem and we highly encourage you to check them out so learn what are some of the areas in the startup landscape that you're kind of excited about right now again I'll go back to our university partners and the research there's some terrific stuff coming out both on the physical science side material science life science I I think we're venture capital is best positioned is to help solve real world

00:22:58 problems big problems because that's the scalability of solving the world problem whether that's in the clean water space or energy space food technology I think that's a huge area that I think that there's a lot of ripe opportunity for we don't see it as much here in Southern California but those are areas that I think are just dynamite and they're gonna take off in the future whether we like it or not our transportation obviously you know whether you know the gig economy is something that's been

00:23:33 it's been very disruptive almost disruptive to the point the government wants to clawback its ability to disrupt yeah and make it conventional like the businesses they're used to regulating yeah so I even if there's even stuff when the gig economy that excites me and I think a lot of the shared services where its disrupted transportation or disrupted deliveries er how people do grocery shopping I think it's quite amazing no quite amazing yeah a lot of friends in the hospitality industry and you know restaurants are

00:24:09 being destructed gravely by food delivery where half the food that now that they're making is being is going outside the restaurant interesting and and what that does is it creates a new opportunity where a they can cut down on the server staff mm-hmm so and they have to figure out how to deliver to get this stuff delivered in a way that people want to keep coming back yeah and that's interesting that the it's Travis from Hoover is the one that he started reads no no he started something called cloud

00:24:42 kitchen called kitchen yes which is a very interesting so there's like nine of them yeah oh they're nine and oh I think so yeah I'm not up today yeah so I think so what cloud kitchen is doing is is brilliant because it's it's the gig economy for kitchens if you don't need a kitchen for eight hours no you need you're a caterer and you need it for four hours you can go and use a commercial kitchen without having to own it no pay right on it and I believe that's the business model there for them and I think it's a good business model

00:25:16 no no we work with kitchens that we work with there's some challenges inherent with that as far as cleanliness and sanitation and making sure the people that use it do the right thing or you have a cleanup crew afterwards yeah I like I loved that idea nice so let's switch it back for back to the founders so what what should have founder be looking for like in a VC like we always talked about it's becoming more popular now where it's like oh I wouldn't go with this VC because I'm selling so but like what

00:25:51 makes a good kind of marriage match well it's an any relationship a the ability to communicate honestly and feel like you can bare your soul and and have two-way communication so dealing with an investor that's empathetic there and compassionate and that as a founder that you can be empathetic and compassionate to their needs and understanding what those needs are ego is a big piece of this business both on the founders side and the investor side so finding the way to measure though you know and know that and you

00:26:27 know I can work with people with big egos but you have to acknowledge it you have to note you're getting into so making sure you know that it's not just the money you're going after it's a very expensive money number 1 so the value out of that expense is that you get great advice you get someone who's present you get someone who's interested with the main experience someone who can bring other assets to the table for you so you really have to do some homework and not just take any investor from a

00:27:00 fun standpoint angel investors may be a little different because they they don't take as much no but even when you're taking angel money find people that can add value to your organization beyond just writing a check yeah I never centigrade and I think that yeah I think that people don't they don't take that into account they see I mean capital is a tool but if you can leverage it additionally through additional connections like my I don't know my perfect like 2 million dollar like seed round would be three VCS that all have

00:27:32 some type of expertise in space and can make introductions and you follow an investment and the last 500k is like give me another like 10 to 20 angels that like can add a ton of value to what I'm doing and can help me in other ways that someone else might not be able to so 100% agree look just about anybody can go to the bank and get a personal loan for say 50 grand yeah right then might be cheaper money and smarter money in the long run than taking an investor on that is gonna be a pain in the ass

00:28:07 very true I don't want to say I'll tell founders I'm like like it's getting racing around is not like super like it's not something to celebrate it's it's like if you don't have to raise the money don't raise it like if you don't need to take venture capital money do not take it there are a lot of extra strings that are attached that's coming from someone that invests I spent 12 years dissuading people probably 80% of the people like that dissuading him from the industry because it was a wrong fit

00:28:46 problem wasn't big enough they just weren't ready yeah even if they thought they had a great idea they it's just not something that I saw them executing on and that it was big enough for or it was a lifestyle business and they didn't understand what that man yeah I think that's one of the yeah that's one of the big things like you're yeah you can have an incredible and I feel like lifestyle gets a very negative connotation sometimes it's like look personally I much rather have a lifestyle business that's doing at 12

00:29:17 million dollars a year in profit straight to me then a venture backed like business doing 100 million of Revenue look like there's not just because it's a lifestyle of business does not mean it's it's not as good or as great as anything else you might not be in TechCrunch but that's okay you [Laughter] actually in the long run might make more money yeah you may not make money as quick yeah maybe you'll make it quicker you know look the lifestyle business is something that isn't scalable yeah beyond what you're doing but it creates

00:29:49 jobs it's good for you it's good for your family go for know and there's lots of resources for people that want to raise money to support a lifestyle business no it's just not venture cap yeah I think the comebacks your point about the the market size piece I don't think that I don't think a lot of founders will look at it from our perspective of like I don't like a lot of members understand that a single deal has to return basically the entire fund I don't really think that they think in those terms especially when they're

00:30:19 considering the the TAM of an actual market it's like look I'm making an investment like I'm chasing the winners and I need to make sure that you have the runway to be able to keep going so I can make my call it 25 or 100x on this specific investment so it's sure there's a lot of considerations that I don't think that they think they're especially from the venture capital side yeah and a lot of founders don't understand the pressure and the strings that pull in the investor yeah because it's you know

00:30:55 at the end of the day the investor coming out of a venture fawn to third-party brokers they're using other people's money sometimes they have their own money in but by and large it's other people's money that they've promised that they're gonna make this 17 percent return on yeah yeah right and that's it you know if I could get 17 percent of my money and you know yeah right I'm not Warren Buffett so I can't diversify to the extent that that he's able to to to build those kinds of returns not many

00:31:32 people are yeah I don't think that I think founders realized that DC's have like bosses and some of whom that don't act like they do that's part of the deal world yeah it's like I get a lot of people come to me when and they're coming out of business school whatever I want to I want to go to work for a venture capital fund I said really why and what qualifies you to do yeah what industry domain experience do you have for a particular fund what analytical abilities do you have you know there are analysts that are good

00:32:10 and that we need good analysts in all of our funds to help do the diligence and make sure that we're getting good deals but why you would want to take on that liability because there's a huge liability to be a fund manager that's not it's not an easy thing to do that 20% carry looks really good if you can get to it yeah I I think from a founder standpoint when you're talking to an investor I would ask him you know tell me about your last big exit yeah and what made that work and how you and what

00:32:49 you had to do in order to work with that founder to make it work it give me an example I tell founders talk you know when you're looking at venture capital funds to raise money from look at what they've invested in in the past call those CEOs off and so did you like working with Lucas Bowles was he a good investor to work with yeah and you know they're they're gonna answer the question yeah so I think there's diligence on the company side that needs to be done as much as on the investor side no I agree

00:33:20 I agree all right so to finish up with some of the some of the more personal stuff how do you spend your how do you spend your time like day-to-day it starts pretty early just answering emails from the night before look I see my job being threefold number one finding good deal flow and and using tools like spark XYZ as a tool to to get good deal flow beyond the application and having people come through the transom having relationships with investors with angel groups with technology transfer so feel full that

00:34:08 they're looking at from the university standpoint that's easy because they can push towards me sometimes their founders already know they can at least push good good ideas towards me working with angel groups and investors is the value that I want to bring is look you're looking at a lot of stuff you may have three or four companies you would love to invest in but they're not ready no they need to go through some type of acceleration workshop or program refer those people to me yeah because we can help them

00:34:41 whether they need the legal backing of stubs alternate market leads that backs the pre seller Aitor or they need access to good mentors to get them to their MVP or to understand what their market places and do some testing or or they just need some runway to get ready for a capital raise those are good prospects for me so it's been a lot of time trying to just keep my relationships with with folks fresh so they understand what my needs are you never get what you need unless you tell people what you want know so I'm telling

00:35:18 a lot of people what I want to need I also have companies in the pre seller so I'm paying attention to them having accountability meetings making sure that they are getting the resources they need through the pre celebrator connecting them with mentors connecting them with investors helping them with their pitches and just managing that process and then you know recruiting good mentors making sure that we keep on mentor list fresh and pertinent and relevant and weeding out some of the deadwood that tends to linger so that's

00:35:55 a piece that I attention to and then programmatically you know I have 40 workshops a year I need to populate which seems a little bit daunting when I was at Lava I didn't have to worry about that I had a committee of volunteers that did that for me so luckily as as an accelerator with a curriculum we kind of repeat the same one so it's it's really making sure we have the best people up front yeah and so managing that process and then you know working with my partner's at the law firm Tony who are

00:36:25 the investors that they are excited about the deals I'm bringing them as excited as I am so they'll write that check so what you're saying is you're not busy at all and that's just my work I I have my what I call my volunteer life that I'm still very involved in and working in the community night what type of volunteer opportunities oh Lord so I'm involved in Rotary International which is about international service organization and I've been doing HIV prevention work in sub-saharan Africa for the past ten years in projects in

00:37:02 about seven countries chairman of the board for Meals on Wheels in in Santa Monica and the beach cities I my homeowner's association I don't trust anybody I'm on the board of governors for start out which is an LGBTQ focused entrepreneurial organization now we just we just had Patrick on the show actually oh did you yeah yeah yeah yeah so I'm involved there on the Chamber of Commerce treasurer for Santa Monica so I sit on that board so I I have my hands in the community and and and usually that's good so let's take the chamber I

00:37:50 can bring resources for test cases to our priests elevator companies in Santa Monica because I have relationships with just about every industry yeah it's headquartered in Santa Monica and it's just an easy phone call say hey I have to start up they'd like to test their product or service with you would you mind being a guinea pig and at least I can make that phone call I can't say yes or no for them but I have those resources to bring to the table so that's that's something that I think is valuable to the ecosystem that I can

00:38:21 bring yeah no and I also think modeling service to people to know that everything's not about work that you need work/life balance and giving back to the communities important part of self-actualization and understanding what your self-worth is and what your your worth is to the community yeah no never sent a great note so then where can people reach you pre-sell orator calm or let's see my email address is not as easy yes it used to be but it's elevon z @ @ pre-sell raider calm no excuse me it's Ellen Z at Stubbs Alderton calm

00:39:05 nice and I have lots of other emails but if you go to my LinkedIn profile you can find me there my contact information and cell phone number are published awesome yeah well I appreciate you coming on the show thank you again my pleasure thanks for offering the opportunity and I will total working with you in the future [Music]